I've got to ask the question yet again. List me, on­ this year's TDF, where Contador would have­ struggled if not for all this help he got from his­ 'team'.

lizS i agree that if schleck improves in TT he could­ beat contador if he had better domestiques coz­ currently contador gets way more help and will never­ fall back where as 2/3 of the saxobanks think they­ could win major tours and don't concentrate on­ helping andy to win

Liz S, i agree with you, Schleck and Alberto is the­ best riders on the world in mountains, but for me­ Contador is for 2 class better rider, in mountains and­ in TT. Im sure, if Contador was attack on mont ventoux­ he will win, and that is out a question. Dont forget,­ he is a first rider in history, fastest go on Verbier,­ his telemetric results scares Lance. Lance never had­ that telemetric results when he was on top­ 1999-2005.

Contador in 26 years, got wins on 4 grand­ tours, and Andy on this Vuelta where is he?

bobcha78 - I'm not so sure that on continuous­ mountain stages, Schleck might beat Contador. I did­ think Contador looked uncomfortable on Ventoux and it­ did annoy me that Schelck kept stopping to wait for his­ brother. I would like to see them both fight it out­ with no team politics so we can see once and for all­ who is the best. I used to think Contador was­ unbeatable but I was impressed with Schleck on the Tour­ so am giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Liz S you talk about Schleck like he could beat­ Contador in mountains, but every on the world see who­ is a better climber. Schleck needs to improve TT, that­ is sure, and must give Contador 2 minutes on TT, then­ Andy could win some tour, but one thing is sure in­ mountains, Contador could easy give to riders (in top­ ten spots on the world) 1 or 2 minutes.

For me he is a­ best climber i ever see in my life, he is unbeatable on­ 21days races, and every stage on grand tours who enden­ on climbs more then 6% is his win. I think for him is a­ climbs from 15% and more, when i see him first time on­ Paris Nice 07 when he attack on mountains, i told­ everybody that guy is new Lance Armstrong, but now­ after TDF09, he easy could be best in all times

If Andy Schleck was better at TTs he could easily beat­ Contador in the big Tours. Pistolero has obviously­ worked on time trialling as he knows it is important to­ master if you want to win the Tours. Schleck will never­ beat him if he can't improve in this area.

I love the diversity of opinion. As I've stated in­ the past, my sole motivation is to stage a competitive­ race. Subplots are great (read: Points and KoM) but I­ think the gc should be shaped by more than just 3 or 4­ stages.

Sylvia I love you keep up the good work. Cycling (Road)­ is a team sport any team in the TDF has 20-30 riders­ from which to organise a team which will compete over a­ course known months in advance. This year the best team­ won. I thought the TTT was a fantastic stage to watch­ (will Garmin keep 5 guys together to the finish?, will­ Bbox fall off at the next corner as well? Will Cadel­ ever look behind him?)and actually the rolling, twisty­ start was a great leveller.......woohoo!!

Maxx92, comment 38 - the problem with your analysis is­ that Armstrong's teams were built around a single­ race all season, with his team of slavish domestiques­ riding without any personal ambition other than to­ serve Armstrong in a single race in the­ year.

That's all well and good, and certainly­ successful in terms of the TdF, but what about the rest­ of the season? Should we scrap all other races, the­ spring classics etc, or maybe relegate them to second­ tier teams and only allow a handful of teams to compete­ in the TdF as the only race of the year? Because that­ is Armstrong's modus operandi (and that of riders­ like Indurain before him I will add) - no other race­ matters, it's all training for the TdF and stages­ like the TTT.

If every other team operated like that,­ cycling would be a joke (notwithstanding the fact the­ stars of cycling in the past didn't only ride one­ race each year). Other teams don't have boatloads­ of cash and therefore need to spread themselves thinly­ across the season which might mean not spending 12­ months focusing on a single race and a single stage.­ Not every team operates in the same way as Postal /­ Discovery / Radioshack or is funded to the same level,­ or is prepared to put all their eggs in one basket.­ They shouldn't be unfairly prejudiced by one stage­ in a three week race.

Amen to The FISH at post 39 - absolutely spot on.­

This year's tour was ruined as potential­ contenders were completely out of contention within the­ first 5 days. An utter joke that a 3 week race is­ determined in the first week like that. Basically,­ riders like Evans and Sastre had nothing to ride for as­ it was all over for them in the first days.

Sylvia, your sarcasm is not only lame, it's wide of­ the mark. The TTT is a team event yet it impacts on­ individual times. So an individual rider who might­ compete for yellow is hamstrung because he's on a­ team that can't compete.

Let's face it,­ Astana and Garmin were chock full of specialist time­ triallers, so hardly a surprise they got decent time­ gaps on others. Why should a talented individual on a­ less strong team be so massively disadvantaged by other­ riders? Is the GC not a test of individual­ achievement?

Armstrong dominated in the early 00s in­ large part because of the TTT as riders like Iban Mayo­ on the Euskaltel team didn't stand a chance in the­ TTT (notwithstanding the fact that the challengers of­ Armstrong in the early 00s were pitifully poor, but­ that's another matter).

The TTT looks cool, is­ good for sponsors and cameramen, but for the race­ it's diabolical.

If Contador leaves Astana and­ goes to a weaker team with no strong TT riders, I could­ see him losing the Tour de France, not because he­ isn't the best rider, but because he is­ disadvantaged unfairly by his team and the inherent­ unfairness of the TTT.

Some intersting points of view here. My view remains­ unchanged, however. The Tour (and all GTs) are a test­ of consistancy and overall ability. Team work is­ paramount, just as much as the extra class of a team­ leader. Sadly, ASO's gamble at the Tour didn't­ pay off this year as the hope was that all the GC­ contenders would be very closely matched for a­ 'face off' on the Ventoux, but the TTT put paid­ to that for the likes of Evans, Sastre, Menchov etc. ­ Agree that a short prologue TTT is a good solution (as­ seen at the Giro this year).

If you can't form a Team that is good at the TTT­ discipline then you lose time period. Why should you be­ given a handicap because your Team can not TT. Here I­ got an idea why don't we give a time bonus to the­ sprint Teams so they can compete for the overall and­ not lose time in the mountains. Or give the climbers a­ time bonus on the sprints so they can win more stages­ on the flats. Some of you will say anything to even­ things out for the Team you back. I have an Idea how­ about the others teams train harder in this discipline­ so they can be within seconds apart instead of minutes.­ This is what being a good Team is all about and if you­ don't ride as a Team and you try to ride as­ individuals you lose. There are plenty of classics­ during the season for those who want to ride as­ Individuals.

Maxx, I disagree. Smaller riders, especially gc­ contenders profit immensely from work done by the tempo­ riders; Hincapie, Voigt, etc. There has to be some way­ to neutralize that effect. Not completely, but it's­ really out of control. And anti-competitive. You­ don't agree?

Brinker, are you trying to get Cavendish in the yellow­ jersey? 2 minutes for 1st, 7 seconds for 10ths?­ That's about as real sport as the WWE. I like your­ thoughts on the shorter TTT to start the race.

Post 21, would you please list the occasions during­ this year's tour that Contador's position would­ have been weaker if it had not been for the help of the­ 'team'.

Thoughts on the TTT: why not combine it with the­ Prologue? Keep it short, 5-15kms. You'll still get­ a gc which is the stated purpose of the Prologue, and­ you'll limit the impact of the TTT on other gc­ riders.

Thoughts on competition: If you want the gc­ contenders to really race for more than 8 stages­ maximum (usually 3), I'd reinstitute time bonuses.­ Have the time bonuses awarded similar to green jersey­ points. For example,

1st - 120 seconds
2nd - 90­ seconds
3rd - 60 seconds
4th - 45 seconds
5th - 30­ seconds
6th - 20 seconds
7th - 10 seconds
8th - 9­ seconds
9th - 8 seconds
10th - 7 seconds
...and so­ on.

That wouldn't affect the sprinters because­ they finish hours behind the gc guys, but it might­ matter to a KoM hopeful who likes long breakaways a la­ Virenque or Chiappucci. That would force the contenders­ to race the transition stages and maybe even the flat­ stages to prevent a "top ten talent" from­ piling up an insurmountable lead. I'm growing tired­ of these "grand champions" who put their nose­ in the wind for 100kms (60kms of which is ITT) of a­ 3500km race.

add me to the "no TTT next year"­ bunch.

while pedro118118 makes a decent point, that­ there is some intrigue to be added to a race with a­ TTT, and that riders will ave to overcome deficits of­ their team isn't up to snuff, i think it's­ extremely clear that if they have time trials that­ effectively remove people from races, they are going­ down the wrong road.
in the past they have limited the­ possible time losses, and this would seem the minimum­ to do here if they keep the TTT. without that in place,­ the whole race is about 1 stage. and that negates the­ whole point of 3 weeks of racing.....

And what is wrong with the teams that prepare well for­ the TTT. Saxo Bank, Garmin, Columbia, & Astana­ practiced it. Too bad for Evans & the others who­ didn't have the foresight to address it in their­ preparations. If you pay 10 million Euros for a cycling­ team and this is your biggest opportunity for recouping­ your investment, shame on you for not preparing for all­ aspects of the race. In a race where the top­ competitors were all doped up (maybe he was too, but)­ Armstrong won 7 straight Tours by starting his­ preparation in November, including diet, training plan,­ wind tunnel testing, riding all unknown climbs, ... As­ a sponsor looking for a professional to represent your­ company in the biggest promotional investment you make,­ don't you want that? I'm more of a Saxo Bank­ fan. But to see people complain about a Armstrong­ succeeding in the TTT because he planned for it just­ seems pathetic

Levi isn't that good relative to the 4 or 5 true­ tour contenders. Unless he can cure what he's­ lacked in the past, he will not perform with the top­ riders on every critical stage of a 3 week race. He is­ a true super-domestique. What's wrong with that?