Gray Matter: Team order time?
Eurosport - Fri, 03 Jul 10:13:00 2009
Red Bull have announced there will be no team orders in their camp at least until the closing races of the season - but how long will that decision really last?
Team orders have been officially banned from the sport ever since Ferrari made a mockery of them during their dominant 2002 championship campaign, when they famously asked Rubens Barrichello to move over for Michael Schumacher at the Austrian Grand Prix and the Brazilian, to make a point, waited until the final corner to make the switch.
Since then, team orders have been the 'decision' of the driver and the team can only suggest that one driver might perhaps be kind enough to allow the other past if it is for the good of the championship.
And this has put Red Bull are in a difficult situation.
Championship-leading Brawn driver Jenson Button is 25 points clear of Red Bull's lead driver Sebastian Vettel, who is third in the title race. Sandwiched between the pair is Button's team-mate Barrichello, who is second but, crucially, 23 points behind.
That makes Button already clearly the number one at Brawn, but at Red Bull Vettel is just 3.5 points ahead of Red Bull team-mate Mark Webber, who sits in fourth.
German Vettel has hit the headlines with two race wins to Webber's nil so far this year, but the Australian has three second places, has scored in one more race than his team-mate, and is eager to take on both Vettel and Button in a race for the title.
Red Bull gave Brawn a clear hint at Silverstone that Button may need every point he can get to keep hold of his lead to the end of the season, and Brawn are likely to be ready to make that call and ease Barrichello into his all-too-familiar 'number two' position as the season heads over its halfway point, much as Ferrari did during all those years alongside Schumacher.
But Red Bull are far from having the significant level of points gap between their two drivers that would allow them the comfort of calling in 'suggested' team orders. To make the call with 3.5 points between the pair, despite apparent urges from Vettel for the team to do so, would leave Webber fuming and likely create an unfixable rift between team and driver.
Team boss Christian Horner is no fool. He knows his driver line-up is a strong one and he would not want to jeopardise that for the future - but he also knows that to take on what is already effectively a one-man focused team at Brawn he will surely need to adopt a similarly singular focus at Red Bull sooner rather than later if they want to battle for the drivers' crown.
And so these next few races could be crucial.
It's hard to see either of the Red Bull drivers running too far down the points, so the separation gap will likely remain close for the next few races unless either one makes mistakes or suffers unreliability. If that happens, and the gap widens, then surely Red Bull are going to have to start thinking about the championship...
Award-winning sports journalist Will Gray has worked in and around Formula One for more than a decade, providing detailed technical insight as well as live news reports and features for newspapers such as the Daily Telegraph and Daily Star, AFP and Reuters news agencies and a variety of magazines. He has also worked as an F1 expert on TalkSPORT and Irish radio.
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Comment 1 - 16 of 76
Donkey - and the relevance of your post to this message thread is....?
Donkey I think you will find that it was poor mamangement and the unions that decimated the UK car industry. It was decimated long before speed cameras were ever invented.
I have never had a car confiscated so I can only guess that you are talking about drivers with no insurance. Just wait until you have an accident with someone who has no insurance, you might think differently then.
Its true ,though.The uk decimated its car making industry and one of the reasons is that they bleed the motorist dry with camera fines and parking fines and confiscations its just not worth having a decent motorcar anymore.
Ok. Mark is an experienced driver, BUT keep in mind that for every race he uses Sebastian`s race setup.
Mark - Sebastian 0 - 1
Sebastian has 2 race wins this season, Mark has none.
Mark - Sebastian 0 - 2
More points so far in the championshisp: Sebastian
Mark - Sebastian 0 - 3
If Sebastian continues his god form we will be the No. 1 driver at Red Bull, and any innovation from Newey will go onto Sebastian`s car, not on Mark`s.
So, it`s my belief that Sebastian will be appointed the No.1 driver at Red Bull in max 3 races, depending on Mark`s results.
Good day to all.
I don't underestimate Webber. I do agree this year is his make or break year as he has the car to win, and win. I'd love to see him go out there are race really hard against Button and Vettel. And win too. I did after all say I would love to have to eat my words.
My point was that yes, we've seen flashes of far more natural talent from Webber than other drivers have to work all their life just to come close to, but he's reverted to moaning and whinging all too often when expectations aren't realised. Which people seemed to start to realise when he was at Williams was starting to out weigh his achievements. Which may be clouding my judgement of him too, but the fact is the man hasn't delivered and has moaned and moaned, and blamed others constantly when shutting up would have given a far better impression. That was my point as much as anything.
Marnio,
Where have you been, we were waiting with bated breath for your first post, but sadly you chickened out, and now your account has been auto deleted. Such a shame.
Love this news. B T W, ___*** C lassymin gle C o m ***___, it's where romancin g with the rich sin gles! You may try there.
I think Mark is a talented driver. No doubt about it. As a matter of fact, 95% of the current F1 drivers are talented or they should not be there at all. That said, I feel that Mark is not particularly fantastic. Apart from his debut fantastic performance in his rookie season with Minardi at Australian GP where he raced 5th. There hasn't be anything fantastic, apart from being a qualifying superman. It is certainly fast in qualifying, come the race it has been disappointment most of the time. Don't always blame on luck. If there is one very unlucky person in F1, it has to be Ruben.
Vettel on the other hand is really a fantastic driver. He drives superbly in the wet. He won a race with STR, although considered an improved Minardi. His dorminant performance against his team mate speaks volume. Yes, he lacks the experience of Webber, and therefore the lack of consistency. I can only see that this guy can only improve with time.
Webber is probably at his peak now. With a good car at his disposal, he better make full use of the opportunity what kind of material he is.
I say, let the 2 men race on track and concentrate on bringing the constructor title to Red Bull. At this point, a driver's title is a bonus, but not impossible. If Button suffers a DNF (Brawns car hasn't been flawless this season), the title will be wide open.
Marnio is a dirty ba st ar d, especially during the heatwave, he talks bo ll oc ks. just like POTTER.
marnio , I think you have been snorting far too much of that Peruvian marching powder .
the uk have the lot to answer for in the f1. they give us the mclaren ruffians, mr hamiltons father, the six wheel car, the beardy pipe smoking f1 fan of the 1950s, the balding ronald dennis and his comical genius brother, Les.
now the enough the enough my friends. to save the f1 we must the act now.
the f1 now do need the change. under uk rule it become disorientated tired like the dog left in the car on the summer day.
we need the new start with the king micheal schummacher at the helm.
we need to slain the uk monster which is ruining our sport. my friends the uk obliterate their own car industry let us not let them do the same to our f1.
im with jmckeggie on this one, i think webber is a supremely talented driver who has missed out on the crucial luck factor,
once he gets that first victory the rest will follow, im not saying he'll be champion but he's gonna be in the mix.
Its also worth bearing in mind on top of this good season hes still carrying the after effects of a broken leg.....
Nick B- I have to agree with you. It's also always someone else's fault too. I quite like him as a personality, even more so after meeting him at a cycling event. But as a driver he has talked far too much and delivered far too little. Yes you can argue he hasn't has the best machinery at times, but in those circumstances his job has been to develop the car. Which he hasn't done, but has then started sniping at his team in public. Which I think people finally had enough of in his last year at Williams. Sorry to say it Mark, but I think you are indeed a rear gunner driver. All be it one of the best on the grid when you just get on with the job and stop finding excuses in others as to why you haven't won a WDC or crashed out in the last race.
Vettel is just oozing talent now and it's only his young head letting him down and Webber through. I think Vettel's on track performances will sort the issue out all on its own. Although I would like to have to eat my words.
Button might be uncatchable in the Drivers Championship. But Brawn GP might be vulnerable in the Manufacturers Championship. I'd tell the Red Bull drivers to work it out on the track with their primamry goal being the Manufacturers Championship. Vettel and Webber both beating Barrichello would advance the team - something that now bears some serious consideration.
Can we ban silly people from leaving messages that have no relevance to the subject.
Now seriously. Mark Webber is an extremely talented driver, who until now, has not had the right car beneath him, as is Jenson Button.
I will say that Vettel is also extremely talented, but lacks the experience of Webber.
Vettel's wins this year have been amazing, but he has not been the most consistent driver and could have won more points had he not made the mistakes he has made.
Webber was faster at Silverstone but his final qualifying lap was lost by being blocked by Kimmi. Had he been on pole, the race would have been his for sure. He lost out in the first corner and then the race was set. He was stuck behind Rubens and by the time he got into second place it was too late.
Don't underestimate Mark Webber. I am looking forward to the second half of the season. Mark has had some bad luck so far. I don't expect that to last for ever. The reason Vettel is ahead of Mark in the points standing at the moment is down to luck and the way a race pans out.
Don't get me wrong. Vettel is a future champion in the making but at the moment he lacks the experienced head that he will need to do that.
If I can read Christian Horner as well as I think I can, he won't be giving any team orders for a long time yet. OK Vettel has won 2 races, but there is a long time to go yet.
I am an old man. I have seen it all before. I went to my first British Grand Prix when I was 18 months old. I can't say that I remember much about it, but I have been to or seen every one since.
I even did a bit of Formula Ford in the early 70's. Very badly I must say.
At the moment, Red Bull should be concentrating on getting as many constructors points as possible.
If it comes to a point that one of their drivers can seriously challenge for the drivers championship, that is the time to make a choice
Jonathan
Not quite sure what Red Bull are getting so excited about - Mark Webber falls off / crashes / breaks down as soon as there is any pressure on him - he never has been and never will be a title contender but will always be a second string driver - sorry Mark
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