#59 John B - what's this, selective memory? The 07­ final not being memorable? Maybe because England­ lost?
Johnny couldn't kick on the day, is what I­ remember.

But it does appear as if the Lions were used­ as warm-up games for the tri-nations. After the 2-0­ lead maybe a little too much experimentation wit hthe­ bok-side, else could've been 3-0.

I am a very big Bokke supporter, but I also agree with­ John B. The Bokke, at the moment, are a good side with­ the potential to be a great side! Yes, we have won a WC­ (or 2), yes we have beaten the lions, but we are not­ even close to taking this Tri-Nations. Lets face the­ fact that the ABs' were a side in chaos. Even the­ haka lacked a little flair. Did anyone else spot this­ or am I imagining it? Lets see what the Bokke do over­ the next few weeks. It ain't over till its over­ everyone. I certainly hope (for Steyns' sake) that­ the media in SA don't kill him as the british media­ killed Wilkinson. The Tri-Nations is the toughest rugby­ tournament in the world. Even the WC is soft compared­ to this, as the Tri-Nations is the three best side in­ the world playing each other, week after week, with no­ chance of a soft opposition in the group stages.

All­ the Bokke supporters myself included) need to keep a­ cool head and see that it is still very early days.

Haha - Typo 07' - funny how you dis the WC then say­ you gona talk about the 03' final to your­ grandkids....BTW u do like the sound of your own voice!­ KEEP UP MATE... BOKKE!!!!

Superchief3: Apologies, I believed you to be­ contributing to the Great or not great debate. I agree­ with your comments about the next phase of SA rugby.­ The rugby world would indeed take their hat off to you­ should you complete 2011 WC and Tri nations wins. I­ hope not but only time will tell.

I am not sure the­ England dream team of 2003 was a great team either.­ They are lauded but the real reason was the final was­ one of the best ever. It had it all including, but not­ only, a defining moment by Johnny W. The stuff the­ media dream of.

As for the rankings, I think­ you've said it all. They are meaningless. Do you­ honestly believe (honestly now), having watched the­ last 5 years of rugby that Argentina deserve to be­ ahead of the top 4 NH sides?

Indan_out: What? The­ '03 WC was played in Australia and NZ with the­ final in Sydney. Keep up mate.
If you bothered to read­ my posts you will see I say poor but improving England­ side. SA hammered England in the pools but they reacted­ well and put there house in order. I think the awesome­ games against France and Aus took too much out of them­ to give you a decent game in the final. Good recovery­ though for such an old side.

My grandkids will be told­ that I watched England beat Australia in a thriller in­ the '03 final. Since I am half aussie and my wife­ is an aussie they can decide if this was a good thing­ or a bad thing. I won't bother discussing the 07­ final as it wasn't very memorable.

A Fantastic game, well done Boks and congratulations to­ Steyn for an outstanding game.!!
Go Bokke, Skop Gat­ manne.!!

Jonny Boy...i like how u talk about altitude and our­ back yard - where was 03 played?? England being out of­ form...they managed to beat both OZ and FRA (Who beat­ NZ - favorites)!! We did not lose a game bottom line­ and that is excellent, which ever way you look at it!!­ Oh and did u forget about 95 against NZ - favorites, in­ the final on our debut back into test rugby...is that­ not inspirational enuf for u?? i dont know about any­ other SA supporter on here but i can watch that @#$%­ again and again and again. The WC is not domestic or­ between 6 or 3 nations - its an international­ tournament at the highest level of rugby ....wat u­ gona tell your grandkids??

John B- where did i say that the springboks were­ great.... they did what was needed to win the series­ and thats what they did. The reality is for us­ (springboks) to be called great, we would need to win­ all tri nations up to the world cup and cap 2011 off by­ being crowned world champions, no less. England had­ there dream team in 2003- fair play, but lets face­ reality again johnny carried eng in his back pocket.­ shame he gets injured quite often.
Look at the­ rankings over the last 5 years even Argentina have been­ ahead of all northern hemishpere teams. Facts are­ facts.

There is nothing wrong with being patriotic and all­ sides have their die-hard fans who can't see past­ the colour of their own shirts. I would expect nothing­ less from the die hards than claiming greatness but­ they need to take a longer look. In my opinion, winning­ is only half the battle. The manner of the win is what­ makes you great.

SA have undoubtedly the best pack in­ the world at the moment, particularly second row (not­ so sure about the credentials of your front row). But­ where you are let down is in your backs. There is no­ flair, no imaginative penetration and you certainly­ cannot, as some on this forum would have us believe,­ say they are the best in the world. Steyn certainly had­ a great game but it doesn't make him a rugby­ GREAT.

Superchief3: you can't have it both ways­ mate. What great side would only play one half of­ rugby. If you can only manage to entertain for one half­ of rugby then I rest my case. The southern/norther­ hemisphere debate will rage on forever. I personally­ love the way NZ play. Australia on their day can play­ an exciting game. The SAs play a game as close to NH­ rugby as you gonna get. (I'm sure this will be­ commented on!). In my opinion, this is why the Lions­ tour to SA was so entertaining. Much more so than the­ NZ tour.

Indan-out: read the full posts. In the last­ world-cup you beat Fiji, Argentina and then a poor­ England side. Not quite top notch rugby was it. Fiji­ put 20 points on you and you have to say they were VERY­ unlucky to lose. The final was uninspiring and finished­ 15:6 to an out of form England. Nobody really talks­ about that world cup as a great tournament. History­ records the win but its not one you are gonna discuss­ with your grand children is it?

Lets see how you fair­ when you are not in your own back yard/at altitude. If­ you dominate like Saturday then you can rightly claim­ to be moving towards greatness.

Conclusion to the lions tour 2009

The springboks­ played 1 half of rugby the whole test, and yet managed­ to win the series. This shows u that the springboks­ played @#$% and the lions played well..... (probably)­ The point that is made, is u can clearly see the gulf­ in class between the southern hemisphere and the­ northern hemishere rugby. SA played @#$% and won, ­ Northern hemisphere rugby is light years behind­ southern hemishere rugby.
PS: get over the lions­ series.... 1997 u won we lost, stop making excuses­ about why u lost. Last lions tour against the all­ blacks it was tana umaga who u lot were going on about­ when he tackled o'driscol. The lions are by no­ means saints to the game.
Tuff game against Aus on­ sat.... Go Bokke!!!!

Cant wait too rout the English,they get anall very­ quickly whenever anything non-english is posted.

Ding @#$% John........wake up you coffees cold! What­ makes a GREAT side? How about this - South Africa have­ played in 4 World Cups and guess what...We've won­ 2. Thats uuuum a 50% win rate. No other team in the­ world can say that. We dont just win games, we win­ World Cups and funny enough in the last one we won all­ our games. I think this makes us on of the GREATS, as­ you put it!

No, andrewpletzer, you are not all disliked and your­ rugby team is No 1 in the world but you do attract a­ very large number of arrogant dicks who have never­ learned to win graiciously and consequently, when you­ lose (which isn't very often) our own aresholes­ come out of the cupboard to have a go at you. England­ suffered the same fate in 2003, not because of their­ players but because the press wouldn't shut the­ f**k up about it and still haven't. Similarly Wales­ in the 70's.
Be humble about winning and generous­ when you lose, that way will get you respect all over­ the World (Australia 1999).

I am so proud to be South African. People tend to­ become nasty when ............. takes over. Yeh???.­ Definately the best team in the world. To bet on and to­ root for that is! The passion that Jacques Fourie and­ Beast played with to name a few gave me a freekin @#$%.­
Wonder what England will manage with against us now­ ???? 3 points???
Cheers

John B, you are right. My countrymen are maybe a little­ too pationate about the rugby, but nothing wrong with­ that. John has a point, we are dominating world rugby­ at the moment, and in my opinion, are a great side, but­ let's dominate for another year or so before we get­ too far ahead of ourselves. I think and hope we will as­ we have the players. John has his opinion of what­ constitues a great side and that is fine. Thanks God we­ all see things a bit differently.
Finally, can we all­ leave the BI Lions tour behind. To carry on about how­ the SPringboks won because of an eye gouge incident is­ just silly. Burger was a fool, and got off lightly in­ my opinion, but he cost the Boks dearly. How many­ points did the Lions score as a result, starting with­ the reversed penalty and an early try. Leave it now.­ Please. I am a pround South African and I live in the­ UK, and I love it here. But quite frankly all this­ aggressive anti Saffer vibe that has resulted on the­ back of the Lions tour is making me a little­ uncomfortable. Are we really that disliked?

physically dominant = dirt bar stewards

There is no more talented or physically dominant side­ in the world today then South Africa. We just saw an­ absolute dismantaling of the All Blacks in nearly every­ area of play. No one in recent history has played the­ All Blacks the way SA just has. If you are being a fair­ judge you could look at every position in SA line up­ and say that they honestly have the best or close to­ the best player in the world at any given position.­ They are young and should have much of the same players­ ready for the next world cup. Plus their is no lack of­ talented young players ready to step up.

Both All Black skipper Richie McCaw and coach Graham­ Henry made comments after their team’s 31-19 defeat at­ ABSA Stadium that summed up just how good South Africa­ are at the suffocation game that they have now returned­ to after experimenting with a new approach in last­ year’s Vodacom Tri-Nations.

“I feared the Springbok­ kicking game beforehand as they have several players in­ their backline who kick excellently and they forced us­ to play too much rugby in our half,” said dejected All­ Black skipper Richie McCaw.

“Forced” was the operative­ word there, and while the All Blacks did play crazy­ rugby when they tried to run the ball from behind their­ own tryline, credit should be paid to South Africa for­ the way in the last two Saturday’s they caused the­ Kiwis to panic.

They did this with the pressure­ applied in the lineout, which remains a dominant force,­ a pinpoint field kicking game aided by superb chasing,­ a forward pack that destroyed their opponents­ physically, and an aggressive defensive screen typical­ of the more successful Bok teams of the post-isolation­ era.

“There was nothing wrong with our strategy, we­ had to run from everywhere because we just never had­ the forward platform to play it any differently. It was­ the execution that let us down, not the plan,” lamented­ Henry.

Whatever is said about the Springbok team by­ whichever other supporters does not matter. The world­ ranking are what count and that is that! If the brits­ have a problem with the Boks, then don't bother­ watching the Tri-Nations. Stick to that stupid sport­ you call football and leave the men to play a real­ sport!

The current Springbok’s exceed all requirements to be­ recognized as the best team in the world. They simply­ beat every team they face and as long as they continue­ to do and up to and including the next rugby world cup­ final they will remain so. At that point they will move­ in a position to allow debate over if they are the best­ team ever.