VICKERY IS TALKING HIMSELF UP A BIG GAME TODAY - HE­ BETTER PUT UP OR SHUT UP !

Well said tonypearce189! We're not keen on it much­ in the Midlands either!!!

Come on Vicks. If you are the guy we know you are you­ won't let him do it again!!!

Alex: now that's really open to debate:­

Here's a quote from Eddie Butler, a number eight­ for Wales and the 1983 British Lions: "Eight­ scrums, three penalties, nine points. Those were the­ stark first-half stats reeled off by the scrum coach,­ Graham Rowntree, the morning after the terrible day­ before. It wasn’t all Vickery’s fault, the scrum being­ an area of collective responsibility, and no, there was­ nothing illegal about the Beast’s work, despite what­ Ian McGeechan and Paul O’Connell had intimated in the­ immediate aftermath of the defeat.”

Another from Chris­ Hewett from the The Independent."In the early­ scrums, Mtawarira went after his opponent, popping­ Vickery out of the engagement and leaving him peering­ around at nothing in particular like a human periscope.­ Vickery’s response was to hit on the angle and drive in­ towards Bismarck du Plessis, the aggressive Springbok­ @#$% – an act of purest self-preservation that was­ immediately spotted and heavily penalised by the­ referee, Bryce Lawrence.”

I am no scrummager­ (half-back), but my impression was that the Beast was­ square on the hit each time.

Also check out Clip 5 on­ the South African refree's website­ (sareferees.coza) which deals with this exact­ issue.

We shall see who comes out on top at the­ rematch tomorrow.

"Your sole­ contention is that Mtawarira must have­ been scrumming­ illegally." He was. Watch him. He­ was boring in so much, his bum was sticking out past­ his flanker. And as many people have said, he was­ destroyed by Adam Jones. See the Bok's scrum on the­ Lion's tryline. Penalty Lions. I partly blame the­ loss of the first test on the ref, but then I also­ think O'Connell, as captain, should have talked to­ the ref more and got the team to play to him a bit­ more. Whatever they did in the 2nd half worked. Why­ didn't they do it sooner? Not just the ref's­ fault.

2nd test, I do think Burger should have had a­ red card, but I accept that what happened happened and­ that referees rarely give reds anymore. I also thought­ that Broussow should have been picked ahead of Burger­ anyway and that when Burger was on, he was responsible­ for several penalties awarded to the Lions. So I­ don't think I can really complain about that. I­ thought the game was a physical game which obviously­ took its toll on the Lions and it was, ultimately, the­ injuries that lost the Lions the game. The 2nd try­ would probably not have happened if the scrums had been­ contested. But I don't really blame the Boks for­ that, whether or not it was their game plan. It starts­ to get dangerous when you point fingers at a team for­ aggression. I'm sure the Lions were also guilty of­ overly big hits.

However, I thought the ref last week­ was actually okay- fairly consistant with both sides,­ and the Lions came out in the 2nd half with the passive­ play that allowed the Boks to get far enough ahead in­ the first half of the first test. I do partially (note­ partially) blame the ref for the loss of the first­ test, but in the 2nd test, the Lions were unlucky with­ injuries and not aggressive enough. No complaints about­ the ref or the Boks there. End of. It's a shame­ because I would have liked to see a deciding third­ test. But that's the way it goes. It'll still­ be interes

IRRIE: We call him "Beast", because "So­ called Beast" is too difficult to shout at a rugby­ match. Duh.
So yes, how could one of the best,­ most-seasoned props in the world be spanked so badly by­ an "animal with sub­ human brains and­ ability" that he had to be subbed? (geeze dude,­ them's fighting words- I bet you wouldn't say­ that to his face! Down South we would consider that­ sort of name-calling overtly racist.)

Your sole­ contention is that Mtawarira must have been scrumming­ illegally.
Did it ever cross your mind that maybe­ Vickery could be past his best, and was out outscummed,­ outmuscled and outsmarted by a man who was utterly­ committed to beating him. Which is what Mtawarira did.­ Relentlessly. For forty four minutes.
We have­ watched Mtawarira destroy opposition props for two­ seasons in SA now. It comes as no surprise. The man is­ awesome. Poor Vickery.

Your mindset is the same as­ those who say that the Boks must have cheated to win­ the series.

We shall see tomorrow.

It's a shame that most refs know diddly about the­ front row and therefore just appear to "even­ things out". How otherwise can it be that one of­ the best props in world rugby could get it so wrong so­ often against an internationally inexperienced, so­ called "beast" !! Go for it Phil. Show these­ doubters that you are the front row king and the­ "beast" is just that! An animal with sub­ human brains and ability. UP THE LIONS.
Irrie

I'm sure you do believe it.

#10 Donald D, read comment #2 then BBc, Scotman, rugby­ news etc. It mentioned often but as you point out, he­ really doesnt suit the title. Oh, now you mention it,­ quite a few people are flattered by my existence. I­ have this effect I believe.

he`l give away 6 points by half time.so my moneys on­ the boks

He wasn't much of a 'beast' last weekend­ was he? I'm sure Vickery will have done his­ homework this time......

mojudaro #5

You are the only­ one I have read calling Vickery a 'rugby great'­ up to now. Very kind of you - I'm sure he would be­ flattered if he was aware you existed.

Wind your neck in Bokke... I'm not talking about a­ race, just one man in particular. I'm not­ complaining about losing either, i simply stated a few­ facts about the scrummaging techiques of­ 'beast' and how the ref missed it.. Learn to­ read before making comments!
'Beast'...?! What­ beast?! He was a bit of a pussycat last week! You must­ have been watching a different game to the one i saw...

Mark, h, i'm not an aussie but the way you talk­ about other people or race makes you a NOB! and a sore­ loser which has become a typical english trait, you­ should look at your welsh brothers and learn to lose­ with dignity,

GO Spring Boks! GIVE IT YOUR BEAST!!

I heard Stuart 'The D**K' Dickinson is the ref­ for tomorrows game...if he is, it's not going to go­ well for us! He's an Ozy Pr**k of the highest­ standard! I'll say no more else i'll end up­ going on a rant...
Good luck Phil! If the­ 'Beast' as he's called in SA, doesn't­ get away with boring in, dropping then lifting the­ front row, basically cheating right in front of the­ ref, you're going to make a meal of him!

BEEEEEASST What beast!! Oh you mean the beast who who­ was so ineffective in the second test that he was­ standing up most of the time (he didn't like it in­ there). Jones had him going up, down, sideways and­ around. He's yesterdays news. This time hopefully­ one of those referees will see how he BEEEASSSt was not­ binding correctly, driving in and down illegally. In­ fact Jones had him in his pocket by the second scrum­ and he was blowing through his fat ar**e for the rest­ of the Match. He had to have his 'minder' to­ get rid of his problem illegally, and subsequently­ quite rightly banned (He can now smile from the­ sidelines for his trouble). Beeasst more like­ Feaasst!!!

You never know, we might get a ref who has half a clue­ about a scrum being straight and where to bind.

Good­ luck Vickers, go out in style...

Down here in Cornwall, we don't like it when a­ Rugby great like Vickery is played for a sucker (as he­ was in the 1st Test).
We are all behind him and hope­ that he plays up to his very obvious talent.
Good luck­ too, to all the other replacements.
Go out and show­ them what you can do, given the opportunity.