How long will it be before people take their head out of the Armstrong sand? Ok I will accept he never tested positive for banned substances, but there is a hell of a lot of circumstantial evidence out there surrounding him and the teams he ran. He grew up in, and then went on to dominate cycling in an era when drug use was the norm, not the exception. Since this time virtually all of his rivals have been proven to be dopers and yet he still comfortably beat them 7 years straight. His performances pre and post illness were markedly different. Large numbers of his former team mates have either been proven to use, or have confessed to the use of banned substances in teams which he was not just leader of, but also co-owned. Of those former posties/disco riders that have not tested positive, how many have had any results of note since leaving the team? Hincapie has gone from mountain stage winner and potential tour 'winner' to being dropped on virtually the first climb of note on every stage. Azevedo has moved to a team that features in almost no major races 'to spend more time with his family', this man placed 5th and 6th in TDF GC's, as a domestique. Then look at the riders that went to disco after Armstrong's retirement, but during his ownership, Lielhiemer was a trier but never a serious contender, yet last year he placed third with virtually no team support. Contador came from Liberty Seguros, a team that was notorious for systematic doping and went from a good climber to a TDF winner, overnight. They even signed Basso AFTER he was implicated in doping and was awaiting his ban. None of this proves anything about the man, but even the most ardent fan must start to unblock their nose and smell a rat at some point.

Sarah S one of the best comments I have seen on this site. Totally agree that the likes of Armstrong and Contador are being tarred with a brush thats got no substance.

Also why don't we see this in the Giro, and Vuelta to the extent we see in the tour, have is it the testing procedures that are different, or that the riders clearly have no comprehension that the doping control will be so much more stringent.

Firstly there is now too much money in the sport, so why don't the teams contract the riders to repay all wages and money spent on them (a rider will have £20ks worth of bikes at anyone tour) over their contract period, if they test positive, that way, they risk totally bankrupcy/personal ruin if they risk taking drugs. Take Valverde, he's on 1.5m (unsure of currency, but the point is equal) per annum.. irrespective of personal endorsements he'd be broke, let alone a Roman Feillu or some other low leaguer.
Secondly I can't be totally positive that the french laboritories are totally whiter than white, Take the equipe 'Lance' blood they got hold of, how did that happen?. Even the landis case has had a load of questions pointing at protocol/procedures used.
Thirdly, Who is veryfiying what the team buses have on them, take barlowworld, they took one rider off, but who's to say that there isn't further veils of epo on board?

In any case, it's all F##ked.

No, finally figured it out, he was bitten by a radioactive cobra, which gave him special powers to glide up the road ahead of everyone else and hypnotise them with the vapours of his sweat as he left them behind, simple, that's why spiderman can't enter, he was copped for his climbing abilities by the organisers years ago...

TO ALL PEOPLE WHO SEND LETTERS IN PLEASE TRY NOT TO SAY RUDE WORDS AND IF YOU DO TRY TO DESGUISE THE WORD WITH ### OR xxx or *** SO WHEN THE KID READ THIS THEY CAN READ WITHOUT BAD WORDS . WE ALL GET HEATED VERY EASILY SO LETS THINK WHAT WE SAY PLEASE!!!!

Ricco is such a prat ,and now goes into the dunces corner for bad behaviour!!! and hope he gets banned for two years , I just hope those other samples of other winners or team mates haven't come up with the same conclusions ,but if more are found the the tour isn't history but the riders game is up on drug cheating.

a lot of BS being spouted...

Armstrong never tested positive for doping and we should not tarnish his achievements with wild and unfounded speculation. The Same for Contador.
Not "everyone at this tour use doping" as just stated in the previous post. There are a few old timers from the heavy doping days but most of the new pros are riding clean. Ricco's positive EPO shouldn't implicate every other rider. Cycling gets a lot of press when a rider tests positive but cycling has the most rigorous drug tests in professional sport. If the same levels of testing were applied to other sports then we would see a whole wave of drug cheats being uncovered.

everyone at this tour use doping

Jane SM72, what is your problem? Chad W is making salient and relevant points about dope testing in cycling and the organisation behind the Tour; and all you can do is hurl personal abuse? ...And not even using half-decent vocabulary. If you disagree with his arguments, then come back with some of your own, instead of making puerile comments about things you have no knowledge of. Comments about whether he suffers from brain damage after he fell from his bike as a child, (or even has a small penis, have no place in this forum, as well as being insulting to anyone who may have either brain damage or a small penis!
Meanwhile, back to the real discussion...
Doping in cycling has undoubtedly been going on for years, but at least the organisers now appear to be winning the battle. They do need to be more transparent as regards other "retirements" from the race, to ensure total fairness and show that there is no bias. Personally, I no longer cycle, (the brain damage and small penis put an end to that), but that doesn't preclude me from following the sport that I love; or stop me from feeling shame & embarrassment when riders fail dope tests and generate press interest for all the wrong reasons. Do we really want those on the outside of cycling to think all riders are druggies? Everytime someone like Ricco tests positive for drugs, it detracts from the achievements of young riders like Mark Cavendish and all the other successful participants.

a lot of people are gonna go down at beijing, in all sports, thats for sure. looking forward to it, itll take the heat off pro cycling and put eeeeeverything into perspective.

The interesting part will be the testers who have to tell the chinese authorities that one of their athletes will be found positive at the olympics

drugs in cycling is as old as the sport itself. all the champs did it, all the domestiques did it. it was a level playing field and had nothing to do with "cheating". if u r talking about cheating the fans, well no. they knew about it too, nobody was deceiving anybody. they took gear to get them through their purgatory, to survive. leave the stars of the past alone, u sanctimonious idiots/frustrated 4th cats.

chad w all you can do is say lame "good comment" phrase to other people, because u re too stupid to come up with something worth reading yourself. u probably once rode on a bike when you were nine and now you think you understand cycling better than the people that organize tour de france. i think when you were cycling as a child you tripped over and fell really bad on your head, that is why now you have severe brain damage, and that is why you work with your hands rather than your brains. you should not only get a life, but also find yourself someone as stupid as you to live with.

In

Good point Peterprowse. Maybe it would be a good idea to get the cyclist's there a week before the race starts and begin the testing immediatly. That way the cyclist's that are suspect will never start the race.

All you people who come on and give the "ive been following the tour for 150 years" blah blah blah. The fact is in your day i bet almost all the riders were on drugs (hence why people like Tom Simpson died during it) so therefore none of this would have ever happened. The fact is the testers are winning, yes there are scandals because people are stupid and believe they get away with it. they cant. I think that cycling federations should be praised for there stance on drugs cheats and would love to see it in other sports - where people like to turn a blind eye to such areas. The one thing that does annoy me is that the only time sports such as cycling and athletics gets any coverage on a major channel (bbc, sky sports news etc) is when something bad happens, so that the average joe public just sees cycling as a sport full of druggies. Footballers are blood doping to reduce injury time and Rugby players were taking steriod etc for years - nobody cares about all this though.

cant wait to see how much of a blind eye testers will take at Beijing when we will no doubt see endless Chinese athletes we have never heard picking up Gold medal after gold medal after gold medal.

Good point Alan S. I figure that teams and riders don't always stand up and back their rider's for the fear that it will shift the attention towards them. They might not want to be looked at by the sponsors and organizations as being suspected of siding with doping, even though this is not thier intentions. That could lead to further pay back in the future such as what Astana has experienced this year with being excluded from Tour De France. It's easier to hang the cyclist out to dry and move on than it is to jeapordize the sponsors and whole team. Once again, guilty until proven innocent doesn't work.

" Ricco EPO positive stuns Le Tour"
Really?
This can't have come as any surprise to anyone who follows cycling seriously. I suspect Saunier Duvall pulled their team in order to minimise any damage to the achievements of their other stage winners (whose medical test results have yet to be published). If Ricco's 'B' sample confirms the result he should not be allowed back into cycling. Unfortunately, there will always be teams around who are happy to give the rider a 'second chance'. This time however, they should think carefully about the future of the sport and ask themselves what kind of image this portrays to the outside world.
Yes, we all know that cycling is doing more than any other sport to clean up it's act but the Tour de France is the showcase event and this is the image percieved by most people (and the media) of the sport. The last 10 years have been a complete joke as far as the credibility of cycling's image has been concerned and if it carries on much more it will be difficult to see a long term future for the sport.
No doubt the AFLD French anti doping agency will be pleased with their 'catch' but questions should also be asked about the circumstances regarding Christophe Moreau and his sudden departure from the race due to 'fatigue'. It is important that their testing procedure is seen to be fair and impartial and that any suspicions are fully investigated.

Just because Armstrong was never found guilty of drug taking does not mean he didn't take any. When he was winning Le Tour, he was more in control of cycling than the authorities. No one dared to oppose anything he said or did, whether that be in his team or in the UCI. Any cyclist that upset him either had to apologise or face obscurity in the world of cycling. Let's be realistic. A rider who was fairly average before having cancer returns to the sport and is then far and away the best rider on the tour.