Ardsay e Giv-a-Shee
and I thought you were from the­ Middle East!

This i did not know, and merely just proves the­ favouritism that goes on in this sport.

you guys are some serious 'forumers'(??)­ !!
just remember, everyone is entitled to their­ opinion, crazy as it may be.......

While this business makes Ferrari look hypocritical at­ best, it does even more harm to Bernie's already­ dubious reputation. It takes more than one party to­ make a dirty deal.
With these tantalising statements,­ the public are not going to be satisfied until the­ situation is clarified and the true meaning behind his­ words revealed. Alas, judging by past performances, I­ fear the truth may not be forthcoming.

mouronroute: Not exactly arguments in the same ilk as­ the ones I made are they, more like wild accusations­ and self-boasting from a Ferrari fan at their own­ superiority, and as I've said on this thread­ before, Ferrari sold the right to be considered­ superior, the price was $80million.

And incidently,­ I'm not a Mclaren fan if anyone thinks I'm just­ a bitter supporter of the Woking outfit, and given I am­ not a fan of Ferrari, Mclaren or Renault I can't­ really be bias against or in favour of any of them­ above the others.

Hi Elan, there is a clue to my thinking where I say­ "I don't actually believe that".

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I­ can see both sides to the debate, Ferrari now look like­ they have no moral authority in discussions as part of­ the FOTA and people are rightly angry that they took­ the bribe in 2003 at the expense of a united front by­ every other F1 team to get a better deal for all the­ teams.

Bernie is no idiot, he is very happy for the­ spotlight not to be on him and the money he takes out­ of F1, much better that people should be pointing the­ finger at Ferrari.

The deal done in 2003 was a divide­ and conquer deal and it worked, Ferrari now look like­ hypocrites if they argue too strongly and maintain the­ united front with the other teams. Maybe they are just­ trying to get another better annual bribe for­ themselves. Would they abandon opposition to standard­ engines if the price was right?

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But as some have­ said, Ferrari are a special team, they do have a huge­ fanbase and they have a special history, but I­ can't agree they deserve special treament and more­ money from F1 than any other competitor and cetainly­ not more money than the other great teams with just as­ much history like McLaren, Renault or Williams.

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As­ I remember the GPMA didn't break up until a few­ other teams had broken away too, google GPMA and Toyota­ or Renault. I think we have to assume these teams also­ got a better deal for themselves too, clearly not as­ good as Ferrari's deal.

If we highlight what­ Bernie says "When they win the constructors'­ championship, which they did this year, they got $80­ million more than if McLaren had won it." So we­ don't know if that applies to other teams, would­ Ferrari have got $80 million more than if Renault had­ won?

Full disclosure would be good, as shameful as it­ might be for some teams.

ELAN,I belive like all other teams ferrari wanted more­ share off the money generated by the sport. What other­ teams , put it right ,the mclaren team of supporters.­ and your spelling is worse than mine.

CHRIS T, good morning to you, there is proof, it is­ taking longer than thought tho to come out of the­ cupboard.

Scottish C, Do you really mean all this??

Self­ interest & selfishness motivated Ferrari to take­ the bribe. They broke ranks and sold out the other­ teams and as a result, they have the blood on their­ hands of every failed F1 team since 2003, Jordan,­ Arrows, Prost, Jaguar, Minardi, Midland, Spyker, Super­ Aguri & Honda!

Ferrari are the scabs and blacklegs­ of Formula One. They broke the union, crossed the­ picket line, accepted the bribe against the best­ interests of the sport and every failed team has paid­ the price for their betrayal.

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I belive like­ all other teams ferrari wanted more share off the money­ generated by the sport. By now everyone knows that­ Bernie takes away 50% of the revenues ( and that after­ paying $80m per year to ferrari ) and all the teams­ wanted a better share instead of the poison drawf­ taking away the money, and every team was fighting­ against him to get a better share, its just that­ ferrari managed to win the fight and the other didnt.­ Now you cant blame them for winning that fight.
If Ron­ Dennis had the power in 2003 then he definetly would­ have negotiated such a deal with Bernie. What Jean Todt­ did in 2003 was for the benifit of his team, any team­ principle in his position would have done the same for­ their team.

Instead of posting comments against every­ other team, we fans should unite and try to do­ something to kick off the little poison drawf - Bernie­ - out of the sport so that the remaining 50% of the­ revenue is also distributed among the teams who deserve­ it rather that this little creature.

Touron.
You just made that up.
The wing and floor pan­ were against regulations, but went unpunished. There is­ no proof that McLaren paid for information- Why would­ they? The 2007 McLaren was a superior car.
The cool­ fuel issue- was a bit odd though. The championship was­ over. The FIA would have looked pretty foolish to­ overturn the result. Especially when the result suited­ them and ratified their previous scandalous­ decision.
By the way. Good morning!

ginger-gitt, I say the following are all jealous items­ that ferrari thought of ans mclaren had not the brains­ to think of them.

1) mclaren jealous as ferrari think­ of a clever downforce rear wing .
2) Ferrari escape­ punishment , for a wind operated floorpan that was­ operated by a carbon spring that cost 9p.
(3) mclaren­ so jealous that they had to pay somebody for plans so­ they could get some clever knowledge
(4)"Cool­ Fuel" issue at Brazil in 2007 which if deemed­ illegal, but it wasn't, it was another case of sour­ grapes from mclaren.
then mclaren tried to cheat with­ two sets of intermediates thinking the stewards­ wouldn't find out, mclaren you are idiots thats why­ you will allways be hated world wide.
Now I'm sure­ there are some I have missed, and unfortunately I­ can't add balance by arguing the other side (and I­ actually would have liked to) because I can't think­ of any decisions in the same ilk that have penalised­ Ferrari or benefitted their competition.

Forza Re Comment 610
GP Update prints the whole­ quote:-
"Ecclestone explained: "They were the­ only team that broke ranks with the other manufacturers­ - why did they break ranks? That's where the $80­ million comes in. We 'bought' Ferrari. We­ 'bought' Ferrari's loyalty. Our deal with­ Ferrari was that we 'bought' them so they would­ not go to the others."
He then goes on to­ say
"and all the extra things Ferrari have had for­ years - the 'general help' they are considered­ to have had in Formula One," said­ Ecclestone."
Would that be the 14 point advantage­ the FIA gave Massa to try and help him win the­ WDC.
I've got to say I'm disappointed with all­ these justifications I expected better.

Lest we forget, the GPMA weren't threatening to­ break away because they were so keen to set up a rival­ series to F1, they were trying to get increased­ revenues from Bernie.

When Ferrari got those increased­ revenues ($80,000,000 per year) then they were­ satisfied, no need to threaten to break away anymore,­ we're happy here.

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It reminds me of the story of­ the 2 camera men filming lions in the Serengeti. A­ lion had spotted them and was making it's way­ towards them for an easy lunch. The first guy starts­ putting on a pair of nike trainers, the 2nd guy says to­ him "you're wasting your time, you'll­ never outrun a lion", the first guy says "as­ long as I can outrun you, I'll be­ fine".

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Self interest & selfishness­ motivated Ferrari to take the bribe. They broke ranks­ and sold out the other teams and as a result, they have­ the blood on their hands of every failed F1 team since­ 2003, Jordan, Arrows, Prost, Jaguar, Minardi, Midland,­ Spyker, Super Aguri & Honda!

Ferrari are the­ scabs and blacklegs of Formula One. They broke the­ union, crossed the picket line, accepted the bribe­ against the best interests of the sport and every­ failed team has paid the price for their­ betrayal.

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I don't actually believe that, but if­ we're going to have a witch hunt, I might as well­ join in. I can do righteous indignation better than­ anyone!

Let's have a lynching, has anyone got­ any rope?

At least it shows that the nutters aren't­ restricted to supporting Ferrari, which is a relief in­ a strange kind of way.

Just looked back at thumbs it seems any one against­ Mclaren its thumbs down.
Just trying to bring a bit of­ impartiality into it must be beyond them.

MGA: I'm guessing there's at least one nutter­ reading what we're saying eve if he is thankfully­ not participating

Well there's me thinking what a good discussion­ this is but iv obviously upset some one.
all my posts­ have gone makes you wonder what is going on at yahoo­ doesn't it

Chris T: If its any consolation, I posted something­ with a similar message to it a while back now too. I­ too got lynched for it. No one yet has been able to­ provide me with satisfactory examples that would enable­ me to argue a pro-Ferrari opinion though on this­ matter. I would like to be able to come on here and­ say "well you say the FIA loves Ferrari, but these­ show the FIA doesn't", because then I could­ argue that F1 is fair and balanced. As long as that­ side or the argument is barren though there is an­ issue, and stories like this article do nothing for my­ faith in F1.

Anyway, I must retire. Beauty sleep and all­ that.
Thanks to all for an arguement with no shouting.­ I would wish you all merry Christmas and all that, but­ I'm sure I'll be back later.

paul t. you are quite correct . the tank itself was­ not illegal more so the car when empty was underweight­ . Bar / Honda had used fuel in a secondary tank as­ ballast which is illegal. If you remember Bar/Honda­ also omitted informing the FIA of this secondary tank­ until the stewards discovered it.