Yep Vickers got a stuffing, yes it was embarrasing for­ the guy but after 24years as a tight head I can tell­ you , it happens occasionaly. He's got to get over­ it, regain his confidence for Saturday and get stuck­ into the Beast and tame him. I always ound a smack in­ the teeth calmed down most loose heads! (joke by the­ way for those with sensse of humour failure). Having re­ watched the game a few times since saturday if there is­ a 'blame' to be laid at any door it must be­ primarily with the selectors for getting to initial mix­ wrong and with Momye for pathetic finishing on two­ occasions and personally costing the Lions two certain­ tries which is converted would have made the final­ score so different. Martin Williams, Hines and Shaw­ MUST get a start this weekend, I really don't want­ to see O'Conell on the field until we have a­ winning scoreline, he can't cope with being in­ charge of a losing scoreline and looks like a rabbit in­ headlights and clueless. How come he was still­ finishing of getting dressed on the field on Saturday?­ Certainly didn't seem ready to play. Were the Lions­ late in arriving at the gound or something?? Anyway,­ lets rip the emerging Boks apart tonight, get some self­ belief back and hope that the team list for Saturday is­ on merit and not job title!

It is all well and good to slate Shane Williams.­ However, the lions are not getting the fast ball that­ people like willliams require the boks slow down the­ breakdown and rarely get pinged for it. If you want to­ see the best in a player like Williams you have to­ stretch the defence and get the ball there­ quicker.................
As for giving chance after­ chance...........well obviously the coaching team even­ think that he is not getting enough of the ball.......

earlier mail.. meant fitzgerald not ferris..

Ads A I did!

Vickery is a true professional and one of the games­ most popular players...as a Welshman, hat's off to­ his honesty and integrity. I am with Brian Moore who­ said it was up to the guys around him to help him sort­ things out, I hope he carries on and this episode­ doesn't affect him too much.

Hats off to Phil Vickery for admitting he got stuffed­ in the scrum in Durban. It takes a big man to admit­ that with no excuses. Having said that, the referee had­ an appaling game and shoul have policed the tight side­ of scrum far better. If he had, he would have seen that­ "The Beast" should be renamed "The­ Borer". And where was the linesman when all this­ nonsense was going on? Vickery's best days are­ behind him, without a doubt but one hell of a player­ nevertheless. And before anyone asks, I'm Welsh so­ there's no bias going on here at all.

There has to be changes for the 2nd test, both mears­ & vickery have to go, shame murray & flannery­ are out, but you go with what you have, thought POC had­ a better game but needed to be in the refs ear more.­ ref was @#$% but for 60 mins the boks were the better­ team..

i'd throw the dice & bring Hook in ­ & will be interested to see how Ferris goes­ tomorrow. i'd bring shaw or hines in for AWJ as the­ skipper will retain his place, bar that, i was proud to­ be a lions fan on saturday, the courage they showed­ & strenth of character was astounding.. jones made­ a difference & so to rees(i'm English so no­ bias)
as for heaslip, people have written,"where­ was he?", well where were the boks back row??, the­ much vaunted spies was not about, well done heaslip­ & the back row & as for croft.. did he drop his­ 1st try??. the backs were brilliant, moyne was unlucky­ & bowe just didn't get enough ball.. bottom­ line, whom ever plays will get my full backing­ regardless of country.. these are LIONS.. lets square­ the series & scare them silly

my team

kearny,­ bowe, bod, roberts, moyne/ferris, hook, philips,­ heaslip, wallace, croft, shaw, poc, jones, rees,­ jenkins.. bench, mears, vickery, powell, williams,­ ellis, jones ferris/byrne.

Hats off to Phil Vickery for admitting he got stuffed­ in the scrum in Durban. It takes a big man to admit­ that with no excuses. Having said that, the referee had­ an appaling game and shoul have policed the tight side­ of scrum far better. If he had, he would have seen that­ "The Beast" should be renamed "The­ Borer". And where was the linesman when all this­ nonsense was going on? Vickery's best days are­ behind him, without a doubt but one hell of a player­ nevertheless. And before anyone asks, I'm Welsh so­ there's no bias going on here at all.

I greatly admire Phil Vickery for admitting his­ shortcomings and agree that he was completely­ outplayed. However it would be unfair to pin the defeat­ entirely on him. The entire lions pack was completely­ outplayed by the powerful springboks up front, and I­ also thought they were poor at the breakdown as they­ have been throughout the tour.

Funny how quick everyone seems to revert to type, very­ difficult for some people to drop their own little me,­ me me mentality.
Can we forget who plays for what­ country and have to keep banging on about any­ particular nation. Although as a neutral reading these­ comments there seems to be one nation that has an issue­ and keeps trying to big itself up.
Although fiercely­ patriotic I for one will not mention which home nation­ I support not that I have a problem with that but, June­ - July 2009 I could not give a stuff who normally plays­ for which country. I want a 22 of the strongest and in­ form players on the day.
Bowe and Monye were the proven­ try scorers on tour, Williams has not danced once, wish­ he had but he hasn't and that's a fact.
I could­ not believe Vickery was even on the plane originally­ talk about clutching at Straws and a Wasps management­ team looking after their boys. But wow up until­ Saturday he looked like the old raging bull and was one­ of the inform players.
Monye dropped some clangers­ along with most of the rest of the team, I mean look at­ Rees' penalty under the posts giving the ball back­ to the Boks. The missed penalty kicks from Jones(6­ points went begging there), Bowe not releasing (3­ points lost there), Philips knocking on on the try line­ (min 5 points there) the whole pack getting sent­ reeling back with a 30metre plus rolling maul (7 points­ there) so it's easy to try and point the blame at­ one individual. But if you look at the above why not­ blame Bowe for giving points away, Jones for missing­ the kicks that would've been enough to see us­ through, Monye for not taking his chances however­ difficult, the pack for being rolled back easily and­ led to a try being given away.

So forget all the­ blaming c**p, lets hope Saturday will see a test 22 of­ the in FORM players on the tour not caring who they­ normally represent. Forget the home nations - WE ARE­ THE LIONS.

This won't be popular with anyone not from Wales,­ but the best chance the Lions have in the 2nd test is­ to play like they did in the 2nd half, and that is a­ brand of rugby that Wales have been playing for a­ couple of years, and quite simply, the Welsh players­ are better at it than the others.
So, i'll echo­ the call for Shane and Martyn Williams to play from the­ start and the all-Welsh front row picks now itself.­ Unfortunately politics effects the 2nd row­ (O'Connell's been off form since the Grand Slam­ finale - however he's the captain), and after­ Heaslip's anonymous display, perhaps Powell has a­ claim at no 8. Only Croft, Bowe and of course (with­ hindsight, he should have been captain) O'Driscoll­ have credible claims to start

What is it with Shane Williams, seriously, the guy has­ been given chance after chance to show this­ "something special" he can do that no-one­ else can, and hasn't produced. Monye did butcher a­ couple of try scoring passes, but lets not forget Shane­ Williams interception in one of the tour games that led­ directly to a try for the opposition...

Hats off to Phil Vickery for admitting he got stuffed­ in the scrum in Durban. It takes a big man to admit­ that with no excuses. Having said that, the referee had­ an appaling game and shoul have policed the tight side­ of scrum far better. If he had, he would have seen that­ "The Beast" should be renamed "The­ Borer". And where was the linesman when all this­ nonsense was going on? Vickery's best days are­ behind him, without a doubt but one hell of a player­ nevertheless. And before anyone asks, I'm Welsh so­ there's no bias going on here at all.

Under threat ? In doubt ? There's not a chance­ he'll play the 2nd test after that 24 carat tuning.­ Can some one please explain to mtau4dalaydeez why Adam­ Jones had no trouble with Beast or Steenkamp. Welsh­ front row, Martyn Williams at 7 and Shane Williams on­ the wing instead of Moyne who butchered three wonderful­ try scoring chances. Shane may not be on form but he­ has got something that Moyne will never have - a proven­ try scoring record. He can do something special - no­ other wing on that tour can.

Vickery has achieved everything but the props have a­ one on one challenge and he got beat by a better prop­ on the day. There can be no arguments from him and­ Jones will start next test. Vickery won't get­ picked again on this tour.
It will be an all welsh­ front row next test, but I would drop Wyn Jones for a­ bigger second row and maybe start with Martyn Williams.­ Backs I would leave although Delon Armitage would have­ been an ideal full back to bring in as I think kearney­ is too slow.

to be fair i read a lot of adverse comments by people­ on here about vickerys penalty count,It was a major­ concern here, I thought he had a poor six nations,I­ dont think he lasted the distance once.He is a very­ experienced operator,but Adam Jones didnt seem to have­ the same problem.Im sure there will be changes to the­ pack.Differant prop second row and back row­ forwards.One in each that is.

Hard luck on vickery. No one had any doubts about him­ before the game.