No matter what you say MR fdshb f, the number 7 will never go away no matter how much pile you talk.

fdshb f, You no I was willing to hear you out and I was reading on when I saw the HAHAHA about Astana not being in the Tour this year and that is when you lost me. Your suspicions cloud your judgement and it sounds like you will always have your doubts about any great results you see. To bad you couldn't enjoy a Satre win today because you are to suspicious.

at the track world champs rob hayles wasnt allowed to ride for a high blood reading, sounds a bit like gusev only he isnt british so you call him a doper.

Maybe Discovery/US Postal had enough money to ensure negative test results, if you know what I men.

And Chad, the guys have been cought after Discovery/US Postal because they no longer have the right prescription, an untraceable formula. They have been using something else and that's why they were caught. If they were clean in the Discovery days, it means they had enough in their legs to win the tour clean - no one was even close to them back then. But it's clear that they don;t have the legs, and they have to stay on the same diet, only it's no longer the same, and clearly not an improved one. So they are getting caught, one by one. I hope the labs can really win the race, it's a disgrace to see a guy win 4-5-6-7 tours, brag about it all over the place only to confess (or to emerge from some source) 10-20 years later that yes, he was using usinf this and that.

C'mon Chad, these guys are clearly on something, it's just very difficult to prove it. I'm sure some more riders in this year's tour are taking something, they just have not been discovered. It's more clear than ever that without serious doping you can not go and attack whenever you feel like - as Pantani, Ullrich, Armstrong, Landis, Rasmussen and all others in 80's maybe even 70's did before. We've had Ricco's example this year - the guy really looked as he could attack at will - probably would've broke Pantani's record on Alpe d'Huez. But in the end he was just another rideron pills. And Piepoli - he wasn't tested positive, maybe not tested at all - but from the way he took off (at his age) you can clearly see he was using something, so the team fired him as well and quit the tour. Because this tour is a lot cleaner, with so many former doping offenders on the sidelines already (and with Astana out from the start haha) you can see how close it (GC) should be in fact.
Without using banned substances, a rider probably could not attack more than once per tour, let's say in a Sastrelike manner (and if he does a fenomenal timetrial, I'll have my doubts about him too). I've read some weird statements from his team - like he is doing so much better in the third week, he is resting in the last two stages so he's feeling more and more ready for the TT, he's got the yellow jersey so he will run the race of his life, bla bla bla. It sounds like common sense, but as I said, if he actually turns in such a very good performance (a much improved let's say compared to the first ITT) and keepw his jersey, I'll have my doubts.

My last comment was sarcastic just to prove a point let's not jump to conclusions being as though there were different circumstances surrounding each and every case. As in this case if you read the article correctly he was let go for irregular values which does not prove guilt. In the Heras case I believe it was the same. It is still to early to comment on the Beltran case being as though his B sample has not been tested yet. Finally, as for Hamilton and Landis there is a lot of suspicion surrounding the testing process from one leaky French lab.

You prove a good point Inigo Q. It seems as if everyone was doing what they were supposed to and riding clean when they were on the American run Postal Team. It wasn't until they left and ended up on all these do whatever it takes to win European Teams that all their trouble started. This stuff must be like going to the store to buy candy over their in Europe.

But it must be noted that none of those men were found positive during their time with Discovery/US Postal.
Many other have been found positive from other teams, for me it is mostly due to age, men that are close to the end and want to show that they are not finish and in the case of some from Discovery/USP trying to emulate the successes obtained while in those teams.

Gusev - Former Discovery / US Postal
Beltran - Former Discovery / US Postal
Landis - Former Discovery / US Postal
Heras - Former Discovery / US Postal
Hamilton - Former Discovery / US Postal
I see a pattern emerging.

Its always east european riders that get sacrificed so teams can 'look' cleaner.
Internal tests are publicity mechanisms.
If they want to ride clean the team need only sack riders that fail the real tests and stop recruiting ex doper riders as managers.
Existing out of competition tests cover the whole season.
If all the teams with internal test policies donated the money to carry out more/better independant tests, things might just change...