Reuters - Wed, 28 Apr 20:29:00 2010
Formula One's KERS systems, scrapped by teams last year as too costly at a time of financial belt-tightening, could make a comeback next season in a cheaper and more powerful guise.
Williams technical director Sam Michael said after a meeting of the teams' association FOTA that Ferrari and Renault had offered to supply systems at affordable prices.
"Basically Ferrari and Renault put forward proposals that they could do KERS for less than a million euros," said the Australian.
"Those have been accepted but what Ferrari and Renault are both saying is that unless we increase the energy level from the current 400 kilojoules up to 600 or 800, to make KERS more beneficial, they are not prepared at this stage to commit that they will actually do KERS."
The old kinetic energy recovery systems, which stored energy generated under braking to give drivers a short boost of power at the push of a button, helped McLaren and Ferrari win races last year but cost 10-20 million euros to develop.
Although KERS remains in the regulations, with the governing body backing the systems as relevant to ordinary road users and important for the sport's environmental credentials, teams have agreed not to use them this year.
"I think that by Barcelona (next week's Spanish Grand Prix), the FOTA executive is due to try and make a decision on KERS for 2011. It's all pretty split at the moment on that," said Michael.
"Renault will supply anyone who asks for it on the grid and Ferrari will supply any of their customers, anyone who is running a Ferrari engine," said Michael.
Williams, who own 78 per cent of a hybrid power company developing flywheel technology, would expect to use their own.
The FOTA meeting also discussed the 2011 tyre supply, with Bridgestone pulling out at the end of this season.
"The conversations really, at this point, are between Michelin and Avon," said Michael.
"Avon's a lot cheaper (than Michelin) but it's a less proven product although they've done plenty of highly competitive tyres.
"They are a bigger unknown than Michelin because Michelin did it (in F1) very recently. But there is a significant difference in cost and you are probably talking over three times the difference in cost to the teams. So that's what's being debated at the moment."
While Ferrari boss Stefano Domenicali suggested after this month's Chinese Grand Prix that a tyre deal could be announced before Barcelona, Michael said that looked unlikely.
"I think the discussion in FOTA is just acknowledgement that you've got to take into account a lot of different factors, it's not a straight financial decision and it's not a straight technical decision," he added.
"All this needs to be discussed with (F1 commercial supremo) Bernie (Ecclestone) as he's traditionally looked after tyre supply."
Former champions Williams, with experienced Brazilian driver Rubens Barrichello and German rookie Nico Hulkenberg, are just seventh of the 13 teams with just six points after four races.
Hulkenberg even finished behind Finland's Heikki Kovalainen, driving for newcomers Lotus, in Shanghai on April 18 but Michael dismissed the significance of that and said better times were coming.
"We've got a lot of stuff coming to the car over the next three or four races, particularly aero-dynamic performance parts which is always the quickest and most effective way of adding performance to the car," he said.
For Spain, there will be a new front wing and possibly a redesigned rear diffuser that had been set for introduction at Monaco, a week later.
"I would say by Monte Carlo, the second race from now, we should have taken a good step and then we've got a pretty steady stream past that," said Michael.
Comment 4 - 23 of 23
Why don't they let the teams use whichever Tyre Company they want. Surely, this will also help develop the common road tyre of the future.
Nice to see you back Bill mac.
How's life north of the border?
Boilyoilyoil!
Bill it is also about power-to-weight ratio too (notice the two os) and we must also remember that this technology could increase our mpg on our daily cars. So why shouldn't KERS be inF1.
Funny Bill I seem to remember you used to be very keen on KERS, it's like you are a different person.
605 kg.2009 / 620kg 2010 / The kers systems put into the car next year.Means the weights were increase again.Don't call formula one anymore....Let's call tank's competition.
I thought Williams were working on a flywheel-based KERS. Why don't they develop one and sell it as an alternative and supplement their budget.
Bill mac why should it be more compilcated to implement KERS for a 800bhp motor?
f1paedo perhaps we could get some spanish f1 technology in? Ooops forgot there is none. arf arf
That's it Ed have a go.
Bill mac,
... too expensive, not to expensive. To does not mean too.
Personally, I think if they bring it back the rules should be quite open. Don't put all the silly restrictions on the use of it. If a team can develope one that can run almost continuously without blowing up, they should be allowed to use it. I think this would develop relavance to road vehicles quicker as well.
I think the same thing for the boost pressure. Sky's the limit whenever they want. Driver controlled only. But they only have 8 engines all season.
Don
I think that not only KERs should be allowed, but just about anything that´s safe and more envirnomentally kind. F1 has been strangled in recent years with silly rule tinkering. This forces the teams to make costly changes to systems which worked fine, the teams which can adapt faster end up winning, the teams who have more cash.
I think that there should be a maximum fuel limit for the season, maximum number of engines and gear boxes, but above all a maximum spend. Less money would lead to more inventiveness
Graeme R, You could also bring back Hammy's 2007 McLaren Mercedes, it has all of the Ferrari technology and upgrades included. Hammy's 2008 McLaren also has the special mobile phone link with Glock. OHICMU LOL.
The FIA should make a final decision to either scrap KERS or reintroduce KERS at a later date when all teams have this system up and running. But a better option is to introduce a 1.6 litre turbo charged engine than runs on a bio diesel and set the boost at 2.0 bar. To make things a little interesting allow teams to run their cars at 2.5 bar boost during qualifying, plus 2.5 bar boost for five minutes at anytime during the race at the drivers own choice.
I think bring back pit stops would be better, and kers!! and hamiltons 2008 car haha!
Brake energy recovery, simple version of kers is available on sub £10k cars (colt cleartec), so its all relevant. The teams are offering it out to others at relativly low prices so why shouldnt it be allowed, it does work and you have to admit it spiced up the racing at times last year.
KERS is relevant to road cars and especially commercial vehicles. Why do you think Williams owns so much stock in a company specializing in the technology.
Of course for public use it requires an engine governing system, but KERS is coming to the individual's car. It will first be as an efficiency improvement rather than a performance improvement, but it will come.
KERS will give the average vehicle the ability to switch off at lights, and to accelerate back to cruising speed for almost no cost.
Hello? Energy storage and reuse is a widely used tech in hybrid vehicles... different form albeit, but the same principle of storing break energy to use under acceleration. So yeah develop the heck out of the tech, utilize it to it maximum. Make a huge hp high revving beast that can produce 15+mpg...that would be milestone, and it would feed ideas for the common vehicle.
Patrick,
When these people say "on the road car", they are referring to super cars, which majority of us can only dream of and will probably never own 1 in our life time.
For such technology to get into ordinary car that most of us own, it will probably take another 20 years.
Take semi-automatic transmission for instance. While it is really gain popularity in many sport cars, there is only handful of them in ordinary car. Semi-automatic transmission was first introduced by Ferrari back in the late 70s or early 80s. That's about 30 years old technology for F1, but never really make it common in ordinary road cars. And don't confuse semi-auto transmission with manual gear shift in full-auto transmission. They are completely different thing technically speaking.
By "road use" they are talking about the Porsche GT3 endurance racer that uses the Williams flywheel. Not mom's Mini or dad's Range Rover.
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