Armchair Pundit

English crisis – who cares?

Arsenal suffer humiliation in MilanSo English football is having something of an annus horribilis in Europe.

Two teams knocked out of the Champions League group stage, only one successfully negotiating the Europa League groups, and now Arsenal's 4-0 drubbing in Milan.

The demise of Manchesters United and City from the Champions League group stage was portrayed as a major setback. Arsenal's defeat was an embarrassment.

Now our hopes lie with a Chelsea team that reports claim is openly at war with itself  - if they fail to reach the quarter-finals it will be time to hit the panic button.

Our national pride will lie in tatters.

Such was the glum mood on TV last night, and permeating today's papers.

So why is it that I can't find anyone who is genuinely bothered by England's underperformance?

I have never understood the idea that the English should support Premier League sides in Europe.

If you are, for example, a Tottenham fan, the chances are you don't like Arsenal very much. In fact, you probably want them to lose every week.

That being the case, why on earth would you abandon that stance when they take on a foreign team towards which you probably hold no ill-feeling whatsoever?

Answer - you wouldn't.

Even if it's not one of your direct rivals playing, there is undoubtedly something satisfying about seeing the Premier League's hubristic cream take a pasting in Europe.

There was a degree of neutral support for United in 1999 when they won England's first European Cup for 15 years - but since then any goodwill has dissipated thanks to our top clubs' enormous self-regard.

To maintain the impression of impartiality, the media are forced to take a general view of the nation's fortunes, but individuals do not think like that.

They think only about their own team. If they get knocked out early, it's disappointing. And that's it. If other English sides fail it is a slight comfort - you don't want them rubbing it in by actually winning the thing.

It is a strange sort of patriot who wants an English team - any team - to win in Europe. Even one you normally hate.

The best argument advanced in favour of supporting Premier League teams centres on the country coefficient that determines the number of teams that gain access to the Champions and Europa Leagues.

The better English sides do in Europe, the more places we get, and the greater my team's chance of qualifying.

It's fair enough, but the chances of England losing that coveted fourth Champions League spot in the foreseeable future are remote.

Three countries currently get four places - England, Spain and Germany.

England top the country coefficients, which are calculated on a five-year basis, and are absolutely miles clear of Italy in fourth.

The Premier League's seasonal coefficient is greater than Serie A's for each of the last five completed campaigns, as well as this one so far (though that may well change).

It is also notable that the highest seasonal coefficient of recent years was achieved by Portugal last year - thanks mainly to their performance in the Europa League where they had three semi-finalists.

So, the Manchester clubs' relegation to the second-tier competition could perversely have a positive effect on England's coefficient, as it gives them a great chance of getting their hands on silverware - for all our strength in numbers, English teams have won just three of 21 Champions Leagues since their return to Europe in 1990.

In short, as long as English clubs are good enough to be competitive in Europe, their coefficient will remain high.

For English sides to lose their top-three country coefficient ranking, they would have play badly enough for long enough that their absence hardly mattered anyway.

After all, what's the point of having four (or three, or even two) teams in the Champions League if they are just going to lose, season after season?

Finishing fourth in the Premier League remains a priority for Arsenal, due to the riches endowed by Europe's foremost competition.

But judging by this season's continental catastrophes, you might wonder why they would let themselves in for more punishment.

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47 comments

  • Menno  •  Delft, The Netherlands  •  3 months ago
    I disagree with Chick. In general I think you'd like your home country's teams to win (at least the ones that you don't specifically hate) simply because you can better identify yourself with a domestic team. So more reflected glory for you if they win.
    I myself hate PSV in Holland and I'd LOVE to see them lose every domestic match, but I still want them to do well when they play in Europe. If only to get the confirmation that the Dutch league as a whole beats that of country x.
    • Fred 3 months ago
      But you are Dutch. I am also foreigner, and could not believe it when I came to UK and realized that almost everybody who supported a team felt for several other teams like the fans of Barcelona and Real Madrid against the other team. They seem only to be able to band together for England as a national team.
    • Shao Long 3 months ago
      Nonsense. I know lots of English supporters who support other English teams in Europe.
  • david  •  3 months ago
    obviously the best teams are not from the PL. the best teams are. barca, real, Milan, bayern and maybe juve i will decide depending on how well they will do in the champions league next year(still the only undefeted team in the top leagues in europe) sorry for not including any PL team but i just cant see them competing against any od those teams. even man city despite all there stars. i think its the english way of playing football its just to phisical. when i watch a Serie A or a La Liga match i see tactical and smart football. yesterday Milan dominated arsenal from attack to defence because Allegri is tactically superior to wenger i havent seen arsenal play such a bad game even in the 8-2 in old traford they crerated more with there B team against Milan with arguably there starting 11 against a milan that has 7 injured players didnt even show up. im a fan of the Serie A but and it has been undrrated for the past few years. in the last 10 years the champions league has been won 3 times by Italian teams 2 times by english teams..... maybe they usualy play more consistantly but if you cant win whats the point. the PL has to change its style of play before it ends up like the scotish league. and england had to invest more in young players there are few good young english players at the moment thats why the english team is suffering.

    FORZA ITLALIA!!!!!
    FORZA MILAN!!!!!
  • tink  •  3 months ago
    Totally agree, why would I want to see my rivals do well? I think it is especially the case in England where not only are we in very little danger as you say of losing qualifying spots, but there is an arrogance about our league and ignorance towards others.

    It is nice to see the people who think the premier league is all powerful and mighty and other leagues lack quality, put in their place every once in a while.
  • Courgetto  •  Birmingham, England  •  3 months ago
    Many of us are not bothered about European competitions because they are all a circus. There are also too many fixtures at the wrong times for Premiership clubs to manage on an equal basis. Not to mention the corruption that still exists in the European game.
  • GINO  •  Norwich, England  •  3 months ago
    the english premier league,well what can you say about it?at the moment moneys coming in clubs are benefitting from tv revenue,sky mostly.and then shock horror ordinary joe bloggs starts to realise hang on im being shafted here by sky with their sky high prices(no pun intended) and horrors of horrors the clubs start to get less revenue,and top players have to be sold off cos they cant afford them and clubs will start to go into administration because they`ve overstretched themselves chasing a dream.
    trust me everyone this is the reality of what is going to happen,look at the glazer bros at man u they`re not bullet proof,if their creditors decide to pull the plug on em man u would be bankrupt,and there would be no more arrogance just anxiety and worry.i say to the english make the most of what you have because sooner rather than later the bubble is going to burst in this country where football is concerned because the clubs are starting to slowly but surely self destruct themselves.
  • Felice Tedechi  •  Hounslow, England  •  3 months ago
    Yes don't bother with the new replica England shirt celebrate success at the forth comig Euro's and buy a German replica shirt. Act now, going fast etc etc etc. Simples, Job Done, End Of.
  • j g boulter  •  Riyadh, Saudi Arabia  •  3 months ago
    I must be one of those strange sorts of patriot who wants an English team - any team - to win in Europe. Stranger yet, I also want teams of countries I've lived in to do well, too. The only time there is conflict and I don't know who to back is when one of the English teams faces a European team from where I have lived part of my life - that being Portugal. And since I lived in Braga most of my time there, the Arsenalistas give me the most conflict in my breast.

    I also love the hard done by and underdog, so I am patiently awaiting Boavista and the Estadio de Bessa's return to top flight football. I used to feel the same for Man City - until they got filthy rich.
  • Alf  •  Montpellier, France  •  3 months ago
    Nice to see a well balanced, well thought out review of the situation by "You nosey" But then of course it's half term. How long is it since Tottenham won the league Nosey?
  • Rottweiler  •  South Croydon, England  •  3 months ago
    LOL@ England. The more England fails, the happier I am. Garbage #$%$ country deserve to fail. Fail more England, fail more.
    • michaelh 3 months ago
      isnt south croydon part of england?
    • WAYNE 3 months ago
      #$%$ go back to what ever sh?t hole you come from
  • bishal b  •  Dallas, United States  •  3 months ago
    its time to re-think their performance at European level .When Arsenal makes first shot at goal in 65 mins ,were they really playing at European level? So far supporting any English team for Europe is concerned ,i think even players frm rival team don't get applaud for scoring goal for National team .
  • m  •  Maidenhead, England  •  3 months ago
    I'm afraid you are missing the point Dear Armchair Pundit. The English teams are NOT among the best in Europe, they are the best teams on AVERAGE there. if mediocrity and back patting for reaching 4th place in PL is your thing, then they are a success. I am an Arsenal fan, but it's time to wake up and shake up.
  • Angus  •  London, England  •  3 months ago
    More dull and uninteresting football drivel.
  • Stephan  •  3 months ago
    Look bottom line is: Man utd, Man City, Tottenham and Arsenal will be in the Champions League stronger next season!! Then we shall talk about English dominance... This is just a setback as stated...
    • Sandro 3 months ago
      3 titles in 21 years with 3 to 4 of the richest teams in the world is not what I call dominance. And two of those titles (manu99 liverpool05) both teams were completely outclassed and DOMINATED!!!
    • Sandro 3 months ago
      Oh and there is nothing English about these teams apart from where their grounds are and the tea ladies! Haha.
    • Menno 3 months ago
      Yes, I remember. In 99 United was trailing 1-0 to Bayern until the 90th minute. In 05 Liverpool miraculously came back from being 3-0 down.
  • Abhisheck  •  3 months ago
    Chelsea will win it don't worry. =).
    I don't know how but we will win it somehow.
    CFC for the win!
    • Steve 3 months ago
      What's the weather like today on your planet?
    • Dean 3 months ago
      lol good man, been saying the same thing with Stoke City and Wales for years, not about logic, about loyalty.
    • David 3 months ago
      Keep taking the medicine mate!
  • Eriks  •  3 months ago
    I as a Man U supporter actually want to see Chelsea (Arsenal before the 4-0) succeed in the Champions League. I have nothing against those teams, and if anything it just would show the world that the best team(s) are from Barclays Premier League.
    • Levi 3 months ago
      Good point. I'm also a Man. United fan and have no grudge against Chelsea or Arsenal. Football is a competition. The stronger the opponents, the more you have to train to catch up and you'll eventually surpass them. So let's not hate, but try to become better and worthy of global recognition!
    • Sandro 3 months ago
      So it's clear you think manU are the best team in the world. 25 years or so in the champions league spending shed loads of money along the way and still only TWO unbelievably fortunate victories! Bottom line is as soon as you play anyone decent you get comprehensively beaten!!!
    • Steve 3 months ago
      People like you can't give it a rest can you Sandro.
      Perhaps you can buy a life on Amazon
  • Roxana  •  3 months ago
    Money is ruling the world, in fact EPL. That's why there's no sense of compatriotship.
    Arsenal is a good team, they need to change the strategy and buy some at least 1 "Cesc".
    When I saw Moneyball movie I saw Arsenal's budget. I don't know why. Maybe because they can't spend at all. I wish Wenger hired an assistant from Yale majoring in economics too. haha.
  • daplad  •  3 months ago
    Sorry Cyril but in footballing terms - without foreigners England would just be a bigger Scotland, or worse Ireland!
  • Ashdowner01  •  3 months ago
    The article totally ignores the neutral spectator who puts country above rivalry and wants all UK and Ireland teams to succeed in Europe. Absolute brainless drivel.
  • Andrew Howard  •  Huddersfield, England  •  3 months ago
    I am waiting for Newcastle to come into Europe prefererably the Champions League because I don't have a British team in Europe
  • The chief  •  London, England  •  3 months ago
    well in MY OPINION it Seems to me dispite these players being paid millions of pounds each year, we are just GOOD ENOUGH to compete against the big clubs and players of europe !!!!!!!!!! and when you pay wages of that magnitude, we should be demanding results full stop !!!!!!

About Armchair Pundit

Alex Chick spent the World Cup pontificating from the comfort of his own front room, and will continue rambling about football from the dark recesses of the Eurosport office. Not so much Armchair Pundit as Swivel Chair Pundit. He has been Deputy Managing Editor at Eurosport-Yahoo! since 2007, although it took him until last week to work out how to use the photocopier.

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