Manchester United Message Board
You'd think someone who calls himself a born again christian would have no difficulty answering a simple question like that ... wouldn't you?
It's quite a simple question, no catches.
Did Jesus come into being at his birth to Mary?
Did god 'make' him before his Earthly birth?
Has he always existed, like god?
I'm an atheist and I know the answer, why doesn't saint clive?
- 2 Replies to Clive
Stories say that he was a Palestinian. I don't think he was the son of god, because I don't think god exists. It's amazing really, there's the same fanatical devotion to an image, be it Christianity, Jewish , or Muslim,just like with any despot.
No, YOU tell them, you're the one claiming to follow the fella, not me.
This is one of the simplest questions you can possibly be asked, it was set down at the second Council of Nicea, in fact, it was the reason the second council was convened.
It is the basis of the Nicean Creed .... so how come you don't know?
What if this was a question at the Pearly Gates, and you don't know the answer, where will you go then?
Yes but they believe (or are supposed to) that anyone of the Abrahamic faith should be a Muslim, Islam to them dates back to the very beginning, and thats why Jesus, or 'Isa' to them is the number two prophet in the Quran, and in actual fact I think his name can be flound in there more than Mohammeds...but dont quote me on that I was informed by a scholar on the subject!
My belief comes from faith.
You have no idea what you are talking about, you have a little bit of knowledge, your aim is to disprove Christianity and so you believe the rubbish that it was created by the Catholic Church, even basic history tells us the Catholic church was set up by Constantine and history tells us about him and about him setting up the council you were speaking about, all of which was done over 300 years after the death of Christ, therefore after the birth of Christianity.
Catholocism did take over, obviously it would with the backing of the Roman Empire, then the C of E, then the Baptist church, the Evangelical, etc,etc.
Enough said, I have had enough of playing your games, you just want people to get as abusive as you do, then you back off because you have now got what you wanted, to bring them down to your level.
Oh dear, it seems you haven't quite grasped the point!
Whether a Muslim states it or not is irrelevant, its what they are SUPPOSED to believe!
Its much like Christians, there are a couple billion of them who are supposed to oppose Paganism, and yet there entire 'religion' is based upon Pagan elements.
Isa is Islamic, as is God, as was Adam and Abraham...even if they didn't have the 'label' back then, its what they were.....get it?
Have a think about it!
What they are supposed to believe? Not exactly sure how you came to that conclusion. There are over a billion muslims, with countless sects of the faith, and they are all supposed to believe the same thing? They clearly don't.
Sunnis, Sufis and Shi'ites; 3 of the bigger sects; believe completely different things than one another, yet you can say what they are supposed to believe? Bit of an ignorant statement.
That's it, 5:00am and I'm off to bed, I'll give you time to learn a bit about the religion you claim to belong to and I'll be back later to rip you to pieces again.
Just to save you some embarrassment, read about Constantine, read about christianity before constantine, before the councils of Nicea.
See what the vote was when they had to decide whether or not Jesus was divine.
Read about the Arian Heresy in regards to the original question I asked you.
See what was believed in, and what was rejected at the councils.
See what the early christians believed that was later called heresy.
Look at the list of gospels that were rejected, including the Gnostic gospels.
Read the gospel of James, (as dictated to him by his brother Jesus, according to the gospel).
When you've done that, see what you believe now, according to your religion, that conflicts with the early christians, and you'll see a completely different religion.
And then apologise for claiming you know more about the subject than me.
Wonderful retort. Completely ignore any actual debate, attack the person. You should run for government.
I did say it wasn't worth my time getting into a debate, this is clearly where it was heading as soon as your main standing point was questioned.
Telling people what a muslim is or a muslim isn't, what they should believe or sholdn't believe, then attacking it from that angle, is a huge strawman argument/fallacy.
I'll leave the thread, like I said, not worth my time and I'm sure other people have enough wits about them to see this to, there's no point 'debating with you' :)
Its not my fault you can't grasp this, Im talking about fundamental teachings the religions emanated from, not cultural trappings that people have added on over time.
Its the same argument for Buddhism and Christianity. Yes, Im saying NO Buddhist, out of the millions that do, should be worshiping Buddha, thats not ignorant thats historical facts.
Just as the church in its contemporary, institutional form has neither a biblical nor a historical right to function as it does - again, based on historical evidence.
Please by all means leave the thread, because you dont have a clue what you're talking about and you're merely wasting our time.
"Not all christian based religions originates from catholocism."
So name me one christian religion that doesn't come from a catholic root, or doesn't include catholic dogma?
Name me one christian religion that doesn't hold Jesus as the son of god?
Name one christian religion that doesn't use basically the same bible, but that contains books declared heresy by the catholic church?
We know all about the time after the death of Jesus that catholicism started, I've mentioned it here, it makes no difference.
- View More Messages