Tottenham Hotspur Message Board
On a serious note Spurs fans your Ledley, he whom has been lauded as "one of the best centre backs of his generation" (and rightfully so) was arguably at fault against Arsenal on Saturday.
The question it raises simply must be...
Can a player who rarely trains truly compete with this generation of athletes playing in the Prem. today?
Should Harry do the decent thing and shout out " TAXI FOR KING" or is Old Lead legs still the "Daddy" in the eyes of his fans?
I'm not so sure Ledley has slowed - but when he play's you'll see that he doesn't seem too keen on turning quickly. You'll probably find that over a straight course, he's as quick as ever (all but) ..
I've got exactly the same opinion as you. He's just stopping us addressing the problem. What happens in 3 months time, when an accidental slip or a couple of games on heavy pitches cause him too much grief? To me, play him when he's 100% fit - get him to that state and play him (if he's playing well) in every game that you can. Great - ideal. But that isn't the case - and if we're not careful, good players like Daws who give 110% will leave to get playing time.
Well SB - for someone who in another thread claims the title of "realist" - you've kinda blown your cover with this post (and I'm surprised you didn't find a way to trash Corluka in there somewhere - that's a first for you!). No doubt that realistically Ledley is great when he's fit, and he is realistically a great leader at the back and hold the back line together - but - he is realistically preventing others from getting the experience, establishing themselves, and establishing a relationship to build on for the future. And - in my opinion - he is realistically slowing down - no doubt because he cannot be as fit as is required to play prem leage quality football when he can't train. But two things seem to be clear - realistically you are never going to stop trashing Corluka, nor are you going to quit defending Ledley - being a realist and all.....
I'd agree with that SB, as I've said, I'm putting his few mistakes down to a simple dip in form, rather than anything more ominous. I can understand and take on other peoples points of view on it though (John, Old fan etc) and it makes for an intersting topic for discussion (and this thread was started by an Arsenal fan - what is happening!?! haha)
It looks like we will find out one way or the other as Harry rates him as his number one CB and will always start him when he can, so the questions over King will be answered in time - and hopefully in that time it wont have cost us too much.
I'd be happy with that John. Have a feeling Bent will get one, he'll certainly be playing with a point to prove, but I do think we'll be up for it, because of recent results, win by a two goal margin. 3-1 for me. I'll go with Keane and Defoe for two (with Bent getting theirs).
i think its mad to even suggest getting rid of king.
hes our best CB when fit. & if he plays the amount of games hes playing he will easily play more then 25 games this season.
if we want to be succesful we will be playing at least 50games a yr so theres plenty of space for 4 CBs especially when u consider dawson & woodgate are also injury prone.
i could even include bassong as injury prone if u look at his injuries already this season.
if u want to get rid of king then i think u hugely overrate our team & squad.
hes been great all season up until saturday & lets be honest, the whole team were poor.
id love the reason for our poor form this season to be because of king. but if we are honest, we have far bigger problems.
The point being missed - is that while Ledley may still be the best we have at that position when he is able to play (and I'm starting to wonder whether he is on a par with others - or at least getting to that place), by playing him, we are preventing others from developing to their full potential. Dawson is not getting playing time, and I can remember not that long ago when he was starring in that position - and he always gives it everything he's got. Woody isn't too shabby - yes he does seem to go through runs of injury, but he can train, and he can play more than one game a week. And I think Bassong has potential.
The issue is that while Ledley is sitting in that position, he is preventing others from developing - and preventing others from developing a relationship - which all good clubs have i.e. a strong center back relationship. So I would argue that he is holding us back.
So I'd rather see Ledley on the bench - where he can come on as either a center back or a holding midfielder.
As the saying goes - when the horse is dead - get off!
Its not all bad at all.
If we play as we can, then irrespective of the Ledley issue, we have quite a squad. As with most teams, the worst players always look far worse when you're playing badly anyway - as the top players have the confidence to drag themselves through. So, with a couple more good wins under their belts we may still get Europe next year. We all saw the confidence change in Gomes - he already looked better this season than when he started - but I guarantee that if we continue leaking 2-3 goals a game, he'll end the season leaking 10. Keane won't score another goal, if the game plan is 'play it up to Crouchie'. They all need the confidence of playing well.
My biggest fear is that we end up playing that one way while Modric is out - Crouch's head will be in for a torrid time. Get it down and start playing football.
So here's to a good 2-0 win over Sunderland. Clean sheet, Keane and Jenas to score.
Sorry guys & gals, to be wading in to this thread late on.
I have to disagree about what's been said about Daws. As I've said before on a number of occasions, in the 2 seasons we finished 5th Daws was the other half of our CB partnership with Ledley so he can't have been doing much wrong can he? He's not a bad player, he can't be on those performances, but maybe he's suffered a crisis of confidence since Ledley got injured. To then be injured himself at the back end of last season must have been a real blow to him. I'm amazed that Woody miraculously survived pretty much the whole of last season without injury given his history with previous clubs!
Sad to say (and again I've said it before) Ledley was at fault for failing to stop Sagna and Fabregas for the first 2 goals last weekend. Without being able to train full-time like the rest of the squad his fitness levels have to be called into question - much as we'd like to think so, he's not Superman.
I'm in agreement with those who reckon Ledley shouldn't be starting matches, but used as a sub when needed. Yes, I know he's probably considered too young to be consigned to the scrapheap, but we need to be realistic and look to the future. He could be a great addition to the coaching staff as the youngsters would look up to him as a stalwart of the Club and he'd be an inspiration to many I'm sure. Maybe the fact that his latest contract negotiations have stalled could be an omen for the club as the way forward. Who knows?
You'll get no argument from me with regards to the MJ days, I never wanted him gone. His sacking was pathetic but I guess its ancient history now. I do rate a few players higher than you, but I would agree with getting shot of Jenas and Pav. I've always stuck up for Pav but what you said about Sat was right on the money.
I'd like to think that Keane hasn't really had the chance to hit the highs of years gone by as he's playing out of position to facilitate the team. We brought in Krancjar for cover on the left, why not paly him there? I'd also agree to keep Hudd, though I see him more as a fringe player.
Again, I agree with the Crouch thing - but I don't blame him for it. The other players should know not to just lump it forward. He's decent on the ball and his threat in the air isn't from long balls from the back, its from crosses. I can't understand that when he comes on people see him and instinctively seem to boot it to him, rather than playing like they can.
I'd agree, pleanty to do, but on the upside no one is really taking the league by storm this season and, whilst I was worried about Man City crashing the top four instead of us, it looks like they are having a run of bad form too.
Guess we'll see what Jan brings.
Its all so hypothetical anyway, as it matters not a jot what I think - and obviously 'arry wants to play Ledley until he wears his legs down to the nubbins.
As for Bassong - no axe to grind there. He seemed to be a panic buy when we lost Daws/Woody, but irrespective of that, the man has to be given a fair crack of the whip.
To me I still think what we lack is what we lacked two seasons back. I'm not a great fan of Palacios - so personally, I'd want a decent defensive midfielder - I would trade Jenas for that and keep Hudd - as I still think Hudd has more vision.
The left side is still a problem - but if 'arry thinks bale can perform there then who knows?
The centre back isn't so much of an issue with Bassong now in - but will be again if Woody/King can't play consistently, as that leaves just Bassong/Daws.
And as for a striker - not sure. Pav just didn't seem to want to be there on Saturday - and what a chance to shine. Keane, because of the way we now play with Crouch there, is bypassed (I'd love to see the stats about how many balls went to Crouch on Sat - and in the air. Pointless nonsense. AND what made it worse, was when they took Keane off, they appeared (IMHO) to start to pass more on the deck. Insane). Daffy, I've never liked anyway - but I must admit he scores. So either stop playing the long ball to Crouch - and use Modric/Krancjar/Hudd to create chances. OR esle buy another striker who is good in the air.
And finally, the keeper. Gomes - no...Cudicini...no.
So in a simple answer:
1) A decent keeper
2) Maybe a CB
3) A defensive midfielder
4) Left 'winger'
5) A striker (if we decide we won't to play hopeful high balls forward)
So I'd only want to replace half the team. Spend another £100m.
I honestly don't think we've moved on from MJ's days. How good does 2 fifths seem now?
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