Tottenham Hotspur Message Board
OK i admit i was one of the first on here calling for Arry's head and i have to admit it i was wrong BIG time.
Now after watching AVB come in and be Levy's puppet i can now see Arry must have been in the same sort of situation.
Levy as got out of control and wants to control the club from top to bottom instead of trusting a manager to get the job done it looks like he just brings in brings that were not on AVB wanted list and tells AVB here you go get on with it its a very continental system that has proved time and again does not work.
All in all i think we need to start winning and soon we have some tough fixtures coming up and if we do not turn things around i can see us getting slaughtered and AVB out the door by Xmas.
Then what? yet another lamb to the slaughter comes in? Levy cannot keep bringing people in landing them with faces they don't even want then make them carry the can when things don't work sooner or later he has to look at himself and trust a manager or resign himself.
It's going to be a long hard season yidsters i think we have taken a major step back this year instead of moving forward.
- 1 Reply to Berkshire Yid
I don't think anyone was wrong in calling for 'arry's head. My objection was the REASON for calling for it. Look back to Jan and the transfer window - 'arry had been working on a shoestring. He even commented on it - ie that we didn't do bad when our CB was on a free. We got Friedel, Gallas, Nelsen, Saha - but they all did a job for him when we needed them to.
I don't think it's time either to put down AVB - look at what he does, make an opinion of what you like/dislike, but give the man a season at least to show what he can do.
Surely we all saw with Ramos/Jol and Comolli how Levy likes to operate - I recall having big arguments with SB in previous transfer windows where the blame was put squarely at 'arry's door for not signing players - and not getting rid of players like Jenas/Bentley. In any club you have to factor in who is available, who wants to join, who wants to go, balancing the books, what money is there - AND how much the board (Levy) are involved. I think Levy has been the most talked about chairman with regard to transfers for seasons. Levy is a very astute businessman and has kept the club on the level. I personally think that is where Levy (and the board) and 'arry fell out - the age profile of the squad was IMHO major factor. I'm not sure that 'arry will be as 'meek' as AVB over the squad and who controls it.
Blathering on again.
Hopefully, the clubs around us (in challenging for 4th), won't get too big a lead while we're finding our feet. If Pool, Woolwich and Utd all draw.......
- 1 Reply to Robert
Pedant point on it; the writer refers to AVB being Head Coach not Manager as though it's indicative of his role; I wondered the same thing so checked this out and at least our last 4 managers have been technically HCs (got it from the Spurs website, wasn't all easy to find but it was there). Don't think there's any difference in practise.
That article is an absolute crock.
We're 3 games into the season, our signings from Friday couldn't play Saturday and suddenly the world's going to implode.
This is no different to the start of last season when we actually lost our first two games but because we've got a different manager its all his fault? No doubt the people who think our season is over before its started are the ones that didn't want AVB and are desperate to say 'Told you so.'
As for the people who booed on Saturday, I'm disgusted. I genuinely hung my head in shame. We could have the worst team in out illustrious history and Juande Ramos back, it wouldn't stop me singing and getting behind my beloved Spurs.
I'll wait 6 months more before I take my rose-tinted spectacles off thanks. Til then I'm 100% behing our team and AVB.
- 1 Reply to Graeme Simkins
'As for the people who booed on Saturday, I'm disgusted. I genuinely hung my head in shame. We could have the worst team in out illustrious history and Juande Ramos back, it wouldn't stop me singing and getting behind my beloved Spurs.
I'll wait 6 months more before I take my rose-tinted spectacles off thanks. Til then I'm 100% behing our team and AVB.'
Well said Graeme- it was ridiculous and demonstrates a lack of understanding, empathy and basic knowledge, booing serves no purpose, Embarrassing indeed!
I had reservations over AVB's appointment, however he must be given a chance, reserve judgement until Xmas at least.
I thought this was good:
...obviously, I thought it was good because I largely agreed with the sentiment. Had I not empathised with the sentiment I probably would have thought the article was crap..;-)
- 1 Reply to Jlock
comparing bales & bentleys potential before when we sigend them is ridicolous.
1 was decent & but then had a very good 6months. we than payed well over the odds for him. he was let go by arsenal for not showing enough potential & for being a very limited player.
the other has been highly rated from about 16! and has always shown for more potential than bentley! at no point in their carears has bentley shown more potential than bale.
id say it was odds on that bale was going to end up being much better than bentley. yes, bale has been even better than most thought. but he was always expected to achieve more than bentley.
u only have to look at their attributes to see bale has quite a few.
whereas bentley has just 2 or 3. similar to huddlestone really.
bentley has so many limitations. lack of mobility & pace especially for a wide player.if he isnt putting in great crosses than he is a liability. & dont tell me becks didnt have pace. comparing bentley to becks is just as ridiculous!
It is very simple. With the transfer window ludicrously extending into the start of the season late, hard bargaining deals will always go down to the last knockings. Accordingly team cohesion will not begin to happen until 4 - 5 games on. Some points will therefore be "lost". Does it matter? Is football a game or a business? Whatever faithful fans will lose out until the transfer date is changed to 31 July and hopefully remove the New Year window as well.
- 1 Reply to Old Peculiar
I could semi-agree with that, apart from Sigurdsson and Vertigo both signed early (compared to normal for us) and had a part in pre-season (along with Bentley and Jenas). Ade simply came back. So really, yesterday wasn't about bedding in new players (not like QPR for instance). Dembele was the only 'new' player.
I also thought that AVB would change the style - but his 4-2-3-1 isn't that different to what we played last year. I must admit I have failed to spot the difference between his high-line and playing out from the back compared to last year as well. So I'm not sure what has caused the opening issues. Obviously losing Modric/VDV could have had an impact and may be the answer.
AVB seems a lot more cautious (on the pitch, not in his dealings with players) - that's twice now at home that he's taken off a striker for a 'defensive' midfielder when we've taken the lead.
Maybe the change isn't in the lateness of the transfer window? I think (hopefully) it's just a new manager 'blip' and it will all start to come good. We've lost two influential players, and hopefully filled the void (both play style and goals/assists) with different style players. We played without Modric and VDV when either were injured without too much impact before.
It's a dilemma, but that is what Levy and the board are paid for. Levy has to decide whether AVB is a Bale or a Bentley - a kid who looked bad because of results, but then turned good, or a kid that looked good on past performances, but couldn't quite recreate it even though there was the odd flash of the old player.
To me though, the decision can't be made in a few games. Even half a season isn't that long, given that I suspect that the transfers in/out weren't all AVB's doing.
That's part of the dilemma for Levy - I think 'arry's way was easier to implement. 'Arry simply looked for players who could play football, irrespective of age - AVB needs to find the right 'pieces' to suite his 'methods' - if AVB then thought the current squad didn't suite his methods, he then needed to revamp. But Levy must have known that and must then give AVB time to get the pieces in place. If that means taking a hit for the perceived long term benefit, then Levy must also have been aware of that.
I haven't a 'rule' to use as to how long to give AVB before deciding he's good or bad - I don't have to worry that every place we drop (or rise) in the league is £800,000 in the bank, I don't have to worry that every place may hit the waiting list for season tickets for the new ground, or effect our 'brand' around the world. I just think that 2 seasons allows a manager to buy the players they need and to bed in a system. But 2 seasons to Levy may seem like financial suicide.
That isn't quite what I meant.
Both Bale and Bentley were signed as the board/manager thought they were very good prospects - something was 'seen' in both of them. Only after signing were there doubts in both cases. One proved good, one not.
Ditto AVB. As you say, I think Levy/board thought AVB was a bright young prospect. It's only now, after a poor run, that they may be having doubts as to which way he may now turn out.
As for Reading - I just don't know. I thought we played ok against Toon, and then seemed to slip backward in the following games (a good half against WBA, then a poor game against Norwich). I hope for a win, but I'm not that confident. Maybe with the 'new' players AVB will get the formation and style he's after.
Then lets hope Levy looks at the Bale situation and remembers what an awful record he had and how he's blossomed! Levy appointed AVB for a reason, he's got to have some faith in his conviction and give him some time, especially following the upheaval- which Levy is certainly partially responsible for.
Rome was not built in a day- as they say!
Sfer, I am rarely confident of our chances, especially against teams we 'should' beat! Reading will be well organised, hard working and really 'up for it', we are still bedding new players and management in, which will take time. Hopefully Bale will be out to prove a point, following Wales getting mauled by Serbia.
I don't think his time was a flash in the plan at Porto - just not that remarkable. Just look up Porto and look at their pre-AVB and post-AVB record. They ARE the Utd of Portugal. They virtually win their league every season, and win the cup. The UEFA success was a downer for them, as normally they're in the CL.
That's what amazed me when 'they' kept saying what a talented manager he is/was. Based on what?
But, irrespective, he is now our manager. If he could keep Porto at the level they had become accustomed to, maybe he can do the same for us.
'Arry is gone - things change - 'arry shouldn't (won't) come back and I don't think that's the way forward anyway.
It would appear that Levy has always had more that a small part in the transfers - maybe more so now, but he was there. He was there with 'arry.
I will give AVB the same chance as any manager. I start in the same position as I did with 'arry - IE I'm not sure AVB is the correct man at all (I wasn't with 'arry) - but he may convince me otherwise. So far he's having a problem - whose fault that is, I'm not sure. Modric was going to go anyway and rumours re VdV were there already. You can't lose Modric / VdV from a team without some effect. It's difficult to see if Dembele / Dempsey were Levy or AVB - hopefully AVB will get the blend of Sigurdsson/Dembele/Parker/Sandro etc right to compensate for the loss.
We played ok at Toon, we played ok in the 1st half against WBA - yesterday was pretty poor in both performance and result. So the man has a bit of work to do, as we appear to be going backwards. But that is what he is there for. He is the HC. Even if this season doesn't end up as we'd hope, he will need time.
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