Tottenham Hotspur Message Board
Maybe I misread or over-react to your posts - but I think SB was having a pop again with her:
'.....i thought ade was going to play instead of defoe.
defoe was awesome! u play him regularly & he will get u lots of goals!
shame harry couldnt see this & persisted with zimmerframe vdv.....'
So as I mentioned, I'm happy to debate this - hopefully contained here to save 'boring' other forum members.
Back to SB - I keep repeating SB that Daffy is OK, he's not great. He will score, but his history isn't stunning. Try yourself. Look here http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/7975/jermain-defoe?cc=5739 and see what his record is. Then explain what you mean by 'lots of goals'. Give me any season when he's scored (I'll let you count both goals and assists) more than 20 in the league. Give me all the seasons when he's scored more than 15. Then give me when he's scored (including assists) less than 16.
I'll give you a hand, as stats aren't your thing - the format will be 'season-goals-assists-total - number of shots':
2002 10 0 10 No Stats
2003 8 8 16 81
2004 7 0 7 35
2005 13 1 14 99
2006 9 5 14 74
2007 10 2 12 82
2008 12 2 14 60
2009 10 4 14 95
2010 18 4 22 113
2011 4 2 6 68
2012 11 1 12 66
So from what I can see, he's got more than 15 'goals' (Including assists) twice in his career. And one of those was when he scored 5 in one game.
So you may have 'faith' in him to score 'lots of goals', but his record doesn't seem to support it. Well, at least it doesn't to me. So maybe 'arry 'didn't see it' because it didn't happen in Daffy's career so far?
He MAY score more than 16 goals this season - who knows - that's future? I hope he does - or if not him, I hope our team scores 80+ goals. But there's the rub, surely you saw from yesterday, yes Daffy can score, but he's greedy - in my opinion, if he doesn't score, he doesn't lend much else to the team. His role isn't holding up the ball or bringing other players into the game.
I would guess that out of the 'shots' that Daffy had above, there would have been situations in probably a quarter of the cases, where Daffy elected to shoot, rather than play another player in. That's a guess based on what I see of how he plays. Myopic or what?
'......"I think at times it's only too easy to get sucked into the 'fanta...
'......"I think at times it's only too easy to get sucked into the 'fantasy football manager' bit and think you know better than the manager. That's the fans privilege, but not their responsibility.
As you say, the manager (and the myriad coaching staff) sees the players all week and tries their formations and pairings. They will 'know' who fits the system and who doesn't, who works well with who and who doesn't. They will then base their squad on that knowledge, niggling injuries, fitness, form, who the opposition is etc. Their job is on the line based on those match day decisions, not like the amateur punters and critics who can bleat all they like (to friends, family and 'social' networking sites) about every aspect, without any consequence"
If that is not the most condescending thing I have ever seen written on this board I don't know what is - you stuck up prat John. ....'
Really? I'll give you an EG. Watching the lead up to the Reading game I was mildly surprised to see Naughton in rather than BAE and went about berating AVB, to find out BAE was simply injured.Why is what I wrote condescending?
Are you happy then to admit that you don't know all the factors in the decisions a manager makes?
I had a discussion with SB a while back re transfers, where she constantly had a go at the manager for the lack of transfer activity - she had no idea of what money had been made available, what restrictions had been placed, who wanted to play for Spurs, what pay structure,...blah blah blah.
That is the point above - simply that it's so easy to judge, when you don't know all the facts..oops there I go again.
AVB will end up being the manager who sold half the squad - if it works, he'll be a hero, if it doesn't he'll be the villain. The facts (if they appear in a memoir somewhere) behind who made the sales/purchases will be forgotten (or never revealed) - the manager typically gets the blame for the squad, even though he may have had little or no involvement. Is saying that also condescending?
I don't see that pointing out how little we know compared to a manager is condescending at all. I think it's something WE all tend to conveniently forget from time time. Don't you forget it? I do. When AVB brought on T'Hudd recently, why did he do it? Do you know or did you 'guess'? What had AVB seen in training? What instructions did AVB pass onto the field with the substitution? No idea? Nor me. At first I thought it defensive, but then saw it may have been the opposite, pushing Dembele on. Which is true? Neither you or me know?
Evening fellow Yids. AT LAST. I've been trying to get back on here since last week to ...
Evening fellow Yids.
I've been trying to get back on here since last week to add my bit(.even had my daughters and sons and thier friends helping toget me back on, without any luck,THEN HEY PRESTO every things back on.)
As i was trying to get back on, i noticed on an ARSE thread(just wanted to see if they were slaging us off) that one of them had posted WHY NO THREADS since the 19th,which is about the time i couldn't get back on(kept asking me to create an alias).
I can just about remember my own name let alone one thats not mine.
Anyway, thank fcuk we're finally back on and after apollagising to the family for accusing them of breaking the computer,i can get back to reading the threads and adding my 2 pennith.
Looking forward to chatting to you all soon.
COYS atb JEFFALL
No John I don't think I am. I am trying to stop you posting long, tedious posts on ju...
No John I don't think I am.
I am trying to stop you posting long, tedious posts on just about every thread because it is stopping people coming on here. I am not the one telling everybody on here to rethink whatever they have said because I have been bothered to look up some stat somewhere which might or might not prove them wrong!
I don't think that everybody should be very careful about what they say on here for fear of being contradicted by some pompous idiot who thinks he knows better than anyone else.
I gather from your latest post I have hit a nerve - well I bl00dy well hope so. What was it - the bit about the lack of party invites or the realisation of how condescending your comment was?
"Surely your wit will attract people in their droves won't it? Start a thread headed 'Sfer's witty banter corner'"
Was that your idea of funny John? Did you think to yourself as you were writing that that others would split their sides laughing? If so, your problem is worse than I thought. Poor chap.
Don't you find it odd that you are the only one on here that comes in for this kind of stick? I might be the only one who is voicing it but I have a very short fuse when it comes to putting up with over opinionated, boring fools. If people want to say Defoe is the best or AVB is the worst then I think they should be allowed to without receiving a condescending tomb from people like you. In fact, I would welcome a few more posts where people are free to say whatever they want. That is what used to happen and they provoked some very interesting responses - now they just get you.
'....Ah, at last, you have revealed your true contempt for fans that don't rely on...
'....Ah, at last, you have revealed your true contempt for fans that don't rely on stats John.....'
It's not contempt at all. And I think I've maintained the same stance since day 1. I (that's a capital) like to back up claims I make with facts if I can . To me, if you discuss something other than a preference, then try to use facts if you can. IE If I say 'arry was the best manager we've had since the 60's - I'd need to qualify 'best' (league positions, silverware, win percentage) - and then I'd try to show it. If I said I liked Christian Gross more than Wendy Ramos...that's just a preference. (Actually I wasn't keen on either).
'...You have taken it upon yourself to take issue with any fan that has an opinion not based on fact (If you can call stats facts) and point out the error of thier ways.....'
If anyone wants to say '... I like blah more than blah'... then that is up to them as it is subjective and a matter of taste. You don't like T'Hudd, I do. You didn't like 'arry, I did. Subjective. But when you say 'better' or use a comparative term, then surely you need to know what you're comparing? No?
IE if you said that T'Hudd is crap at passing - and if there were figures on pass success rates and it showed T'Hudd was in the top 10% - then isn't sensible to say that? No?
'....If somebody says out loud that they think Defoe is better than Adebyor it is up to John the Crusader to "prove" that is completely untrue....'
Totally depends on how/what is said doesn't it? If someone says '... I think A is better than B....' it's different to stating '..A is better than B...'. But both may be false depending what 'better' means in their mind.
At first I think I'd need to know in what way Daffy was better. Better at tackling, better record of scoring, better with his head, better...'better' means nothing unless it is qualified, ie unless you know what scale to apply.
I'm no 'crusader', but I will ask what they mean. If they then qualified it and said Daffy scores more than Ade - then I may check to see if they're right - and if they're not, I'll show them the figures. What a sin eh. How mad am I.
'....Exactly how high is that horse of yours John? (the use of stats to prove this is not required)....'
It's odd how people react. I try - I don't always succeed - to address the point being made, not to attack the person. You and SB seem the opposite, you seem to want to attack the person rather than addressing the point. Again, that's your choice.
'... anyone interested in relaunching Jimmy's occasionally interesting but always ...
'... anyone interested in relaunching Jimmy's occasionally interesting but always annoying midweek thread? ....'
...what - how can anything be more annoying than this?.....
If Sfer has no objections, I'd be happy to post on it (actually, I'd be happy to post on it even if he does object....actually, I'd be more inclined to post on it if he does object)
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