Tottenham Hotspur Message Board
Just to stick my oar in!!
When Mancini took over at Citeh, people moaned they were defensive and how slow the build up etc. Look at them now.
I know our defence is weak but we are without Kaboul, Bae, Parker, 3 main players, so I will hold judgement on AVB on that.
The players are new to him, they are new to each other too. Soo many gone and 5 new ones arriving in the summer.
He has a different way of playing and I don't think our fitness levels are up to speed to play it yet. So maybe that's why the slow build up play from us most of the time.
Yes some iffy substitutions ( bringing on a defensive mf when we are 1 goal up ) and only ever one striker but so many injuries haven't helped.
I think the only reason Hudd is playing is because of these injuries and (AVB man-management) AVB says to the press how great he has been. Giving him a gee-up.
I think it will take some time and lots of patience from the fans to see any fruition from AVB's tactics and playing style.
But after all is said and done this is supposed to be "A long term project" whether we like it or not!!
- 1 Reply to Joe
And IF, and it is of course only an IF, the AVB experiment goes even more wrong and we are languishing in the wrong half of the league what price your loyalty then?
IF, there were signs that AVB tactics were working and that the team were gelling and the senior players were publicly coming out in support of AVB - and if he had some sort of track record that supported his success at implementing a new playing strategy in other top flight teams - I would be happy to give him more time.
Your loyalty is based on what exactly? The thought that we are Gentlemen and it would be ever so slightly rude to ditch the poor fellow so soon??
Yes OBRN got a few years of not doing very well at Manure to start off with but that was a different era and Manure had not done that much before so the expectations were very different (can you imagine plain old Alex Ferguson being given 5 years to win anything now if he took over Manure given their recent successful years?), so we can't keep harking on about him and using his time as some sort of ideoligical nirvana.
I won't try and hide it, I don't like him and I am sure that is partly why I would get rid asap but, trying to take my dislike out of the equation, no one has yet to give me any sound reasons (other than it would be rude to ditch him so quickly) for him to be given any more time. Yes, as I have said, we would get some flack (mainly from the Premier League Managers Association) but that would be forgotten quicker than one of Hudds very rare 50 yard successful passes.
Only time will tell.
Didn't we play most of our football last season under 'arry with a single striker?
Wasn't the call last year for Daffy to start as well? I thought SB was up in arms most of last season because Daffy wasn't playing as regularly as she'd hoped.
So I don't see that the lone striker with one behind is new to us.
BUT, so far the players we have brought in to replace Modric/VDV in the 'creative' heart, just haven't gelled. Then throw in that playing Daffy up front changes how Bale/Lemmon then play and you have a bit of an upset on the offensive front. I thought Maribor got us closer to how we played before, but even that wasted Ade IMHO as he seemed to play the 10 'link-up' role.
You blamed part of the current predicament on Levy not buyiong the players that AVB wanted. That definitely implies that Levy was not doingg his job properly which in turn says he has been poor at his job.
Do you really think that AVB accepted the job knowing that he would not be responsible for signings? If he did then more fool him. If he didn't know then he should have damn well asked surely and if he accepted anyway well - more fool him.
As you can see in my reply to remmah, I agree players should be able to just get on with it but we all know that does not always happen does it. Mostly these are the same players we had last year so you can't say "its the players fault" and exhonerate AVB. Its his job to get the players motivated, up to speed with what he expects of them and what they should be doing - he obviously didn't do that last weekend. He chooses to leave an isolated striker up front, he chooses to replace a striker and he chooses to stack the defence and MF. As far as I can tell Manure have had the same number of injuries as us but they seem to be doing ok don't they.
Again, I have said several times, I am not complaining about the number of points we have (although I think we have been lucky to get some of them) but I am complaining about the way we are playing and that is down to AVB and all of the above.
Fair enough people judging on personalities, but a lot seem to be judging on whatever went on at Chelsea without having insight. I dont care if he has the personality of a damp squid as long as he's successful for us, and we wont know that until he's had time.
Remmah makes so many good strong points in this response,
Having been absent for some days (did ya miss me?) due to some rather more pressing matters, I have very similar opinions to Remmah on this issue.
IT IS TOO EARLY TO JUDGE THIS MAN!
He has not been given enough time/resource or support!
There's the dilemma with Daffy. When Daffy scores, it's a case of - '.... told you Daffy could play alone up front....'.
Then when he doesn't score it becomes '....poor old Daffy, isolated up front..,how do you expect him to score?..'. Even though the method of play may have been changed to suit Daffy (ie Bale, Lemmon getting closer to him).
I thought the issue has been that AVB keeps playing Daffy alone up front? That has been the pattern virtually all season?
In my opinion and as stated many times before, in Daffy's case (and players of his ilk), when they score they look good. When they don't, they lend little (pun intended) to the team. Personally, I prefer players who provide a bit more.
The point is - last season we played one up front. This season we're playing 1 up front. A 1-1 rather than a 2.
Daffy is as much isolated as the striker was last season. The only differences being that:
1) Ade played last season as the lone striker
2) The support from Modric/VDV has gone and been replaced with Sig/Dembele/Dempsey
The problem is as then, that although Daffy has been scoring, he doesn't play the lone striker as well as Ade - so AVB changed the team to suit his inclusion - ie we played narrower so Bale/Lemmon could get close to Daffy to support him as well.
All in all not so much AVB's fault either as we'll never know who would have stated had Ade joined earlier and been fit from the off. Now Daffy has scored a few and it then makes it 'iffy' to drop him in favour of Ade (much the same as dropping Friedel when he's on form for Lloris would look strange - although I think more accepted given the futures argument).
Then Dempsey/Sig (so far) aren't as effective as VDV was then in support.
I didnt see the game as I watched my grandson playing in the Kent Youth cup on Sunday afternoon, so I cant comment on the game itself, but judging by comments, it was a reasonable controlled containing performance until near the end. I think most pundits can understand why he started Ade up front over Daffy, as he is bigger and can hold the ball up better. I can understand the fans wanting to start both together, but Ade would drop back into the middle and wide posistions and end up with Daffy up top as usual, which is fine if we had the players in MF who can keep the ball and feed Bale/Lennon as well as driving forward ( just like umm, say Modric ) but we dont. We have Sandro the destroyer and a slow ( in mind and body ) Hudds or an equally inaffective Livermore to set the tempo and pace of the team, so I dont see how we can expect to see the free flowing football we all love to see Spurs play. Without Modric and vdv we have very little real quality in the squad at the moment, so do we really expect us to go charging forward and getting caught wide open and getting thrashed by the top teams?. The players not knowing whats expected of them? well IMO they are well paid pros who should be able to addapt to any system and should give their all, instead off having the attitude " we dont understand how were meant to play ". Most teams adopt different formations and change as the game goes on as needs be, and I see little difference to how we line up as we did under Harry, with Ade roaming just as he did then, accept then we had a Quality, driving force in Modric. IMO we dont have any half decent flair players available who can give us what we want to see, so until we do, I dont feel we should automatically think we should be top 4 material this season. Personally, I can see Liverpool ( if they get a striker in Jan ) zooming up the league, and Everton are looking very strong this season, so a realistic finish for us with what were got at the moment is 6th or 7th IMO. When we get a full squad to pick from, then I would expect AVB to get us playing to a consistant standard, and if he cant, then I would start questioning his ability to manage in the EPL. As it happens, I would of started with Ade and Daffy and would of put naughton LB and Vertongen and Dawson at CB and gone 4-5-1 then I'd look at the bench and think s@@t how can we change things if its not going well? Sfer, what team would you of started with, and what substitutions would you make when things are not going well? It sounds to me as if the reason we lost, is because their bench had quality to bring on ( in Dzeko ) and a quality player who delivered a quality pass ( in Silva ) the very things we dont have. but to you it seems we lost because of bad tactics and subs so theres always diferent perspectives among fans. You and others may well be right about AVB and if it proves that way then I shall be the first to say so, but we're where I expect us to be at this moment in time so prepared to give him more time.
Why just jump on that part of my post Sfer? Levy has always been the man with the purse string!! And I didn't actually blame him for the way we are playing but on the players we have. I didn't say he was poor at his job either. You do go OTT.
What about the other bits of my post about lack of fit players and, especially, not getting the players AVB wants?
Like Mourinho and Willian for a start instead of Dempsey (who looks lost in the formations AVB uses) Siggurson even LLoris for that matter. To me Levy bought these players and not on AVB's say so.
As for "blaming Levy and leave AVB alone", how about blaming the players for their lack of attitude. They seem to turn up and expect things to happen, little fight or passion for the shirt sometimes. We went 1 up and could of had a second before half-time (from MOTD highlights don't forget). Second half we appeared to sit back again (a la ManU game) and invite citeh to break us down. Which they did eventually.
Why is it all down to AVB? Yes he's the manager but he has to work with who he has available. Why do you expect the team to perform like last season (first half of) when there's no Modric, King, VDV, Kaboul, BAE, Parker. Any team would struggle without those players available.
Oh BTW we've 17 points from 10 games, please check how many we got from our last 10 games under HR.
For goodness sake give the guy a chance.
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