Tottenham Hotspur Message Board
So, if football matches were only 80 minutes we'd be top of the table... we've all seen it, we've all cringed at it, we all know that this time last year(? possibly the one before) we were the team scoring then, not conceding, but why do you think we're doing it?
The options as I see them are:
1) The fitness is too low, players are too tired by the last 10 mins.
2) We don't have strength in depth of the squad, therefore a few injuries and/or substitutions and we're down to players who aren't good enough.
3) We have strong squad players, but not the *right* positions - much like the last few years when we had approximately 3468698544 midfielders and half a defender.
4) Unfamiliar/unsuited tactics: AVB still implementing a different style/AVB's philosophy doesn't match the players
5) Bad tactics: management being outwitted by opposition
6) There's something else I think is contributing, I can't remember what...
7) Anything else?
Personally, I think it's predominantly a mix of the massive whittling of the squad this summer combined with the adjustment to a very new 'regime' still not having completed, a new regime which I'm not sure many of our players are suited to. That said, I've started to see a light at the end of the tunnel with that, as I mentioned around the Arsenal game - the result was awful but the intent was there. I also wonder if fitness/change in training habits might have something to do with it; the team generally hasn't seemed as sharp this season, although there were elements of it last season too.
I think we've got an unfortunate matching of reducing the number of quality squad players at the same time as new management (I think 'Arry at the right approach to joining in that he got to know all the players before making changes, so it was a gradual transition for them), but I think we knew at the start of the season it was going to take a while to adjust.
What do you reckon?
It's another one like the trailing off on the goal scoring front in the second half of...
It's another one like the trailing off on the goal scoring front in the second half of the season. Loads of things that you can point at, and probably it's just a combination. Old Peculiar's psychological bit could be true, the lack of stability in defence could play a part - the lack of understanding between a rejigged back four and the holding MF....
From what I've seen AVB tends to be very cautious - as has been pointed out by many, he's very quick to bring on a defender to shore up a lead, which as OP then says changes the mentality (and ability) to press on for more. Then factor that the defence is basically a new unit after BAE was injured - with Vertigo and Naughton coming in - then add that Walker is lacking a bit of confidence - and maybe you can start to see why we leak goals when we invite the opposition to attack.
I would tend to agree about the squad. I thought we took a major hit in the quality of the squad over the summer. But having said that, we're still sitting 4th(3rd) even given the injuries we've had. So the squad depth hasn't been exposed too badly so far.
Is it psychological? You are in front with 10 minutes to go. The manager takes off a forwa...
Is it psychological? You are in front with 10 minutes to go. The manager takes off a forward and sends on a defender. Message received, stop playing the wining positive game and start the "hope we can hold on" game.
The Spurs game should be as we all want it. In the lead and wanting more goals.This is so obvious but no one agrees.
Hmm, I'm not sure. I think you're right that they're 3 important players to co...
Hmm, I'm not sure. I think you're right that they're 3 important players to come back, but isn't that saying that we don't have the necessary quality in depth? Obviously you don't get players like that benchwarming, but you can have a smart rotation policy with top players to allow for more depth than we have at the moment.
Also, is it a 'defense' or a 'defending' problem? i.e. back four (and holding mid) or the team as a whole aren't able to play defensively effectively? I'd be inclined to lean towards the latter, but that's a long term Spurs trait, and one in some ways I quite like - I loved the "you score 3 and we'll score 4" mentality. I wonder if we've had too quick a switch from more of that style to trying to actually defend when necessary - we absolutely should, but it's almost like we're trying to play in that style to learn the skill instead of the other way round.
I find it incredible (not sure if in a good way or a bad one) that Dawson, who was nearly sold, is now captain when he starts - it's crazy that (or so it implies, anyway) he's still leading the dressing room even when he's bottom rung choice. I'm really curious to see what might happen in January given the impact he's had as a player who was apparently surplus to requirements.
Is the defence leaking goals later, or is the defence just flakier in general, and when we...
Is the defence leaking goals later, or is the defence just flakier in general, and when we go ahead (which has been in couple of games, later in the 2nd half), we try to then defend the lead - exposing the defence? Maybe that's due to a lack of confidence in our ability to press home an advantage?
I haven't liked Verigo at LB, and I haven't seen a centre partnership that was as solid as last season - and Walker seemed to go bush (walk-about) early on (I don't think he was as bad as the media portrayed, but he did seem to lack even more in his defensive abilities). Then factor that Parker wasn't there in front of the back four snapping at heels - and maybe that's all it's been.
With Parker, Benoooooit and Kaboul all due to come back - I think they'll make a major difference. Here's hoping anyway!
SB you are a provocative little mynx! is it intentional? if it is well done! I find it amu...
SB you are a provocative little mynx! is it intentional? if it is well done! I find it amusing and hope that is the way it is intended.
Remmah, You are not deluded! you are considered and thorough in the way you construct your arguments (to me at least), please keep em' coming.
I agree with your and NBR's assessment, I feel each of NBR's points contribute towards the results and performances we see each week. I too agree things are not all rosey and perfect and there are areas which need addressing.
I feel 2, 3 and 4 are the biggest contributors, 5 possibly (feels like I'm ordering a chinese), but differentiating between point 5 and accurately assessing our opponents capabilities is tricky, I feel there are many teams that we expect to beat that we shouldn't necessarily. This is a tough league with many good managers.
Each of those points is valid and cannot be proven or otherwise, without inside knowledge to the club, which as far as I know none of us has! which is why Lynching AVB at this stage seems like lunacy to me. It nice to see I'm not the only one who thinks he may not be the sole reason for our current form/style of play.
FFS we lost Luka, VDV and King in one window, how can anyone think we can carry on as normal after that? even if the players we brought in reach that level (which I doubt they will) its daft to expect it to happen immediately.
Great Post NBR, ney, fudging awesome post NBR! Your last 2 paragraphs are superb IMO of course!
SB! Positivity- its Xmas!
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