Tottenham Hotspur Message Board

Oh, and a sign of astute substitutions.

Oh, and a sign of astute substitutions.

Popping in on this late, but with Tom Carroll getting the assist for the winning goal and ...

Popping in on this late, but with Tom Carroll getting the assist for the winning goal and Livermore being the player who passed to him I don't think bringing them on is a sign of a weak squad, I think it's the sign of a good academy.

Sfer - chill out man! I'm not here to argue, I take your points on board but think you...

Sfer - chill out man! I'm not here to argue, I take your points on board but think you're being harsh on us. Whatever you say about Arsenal without RVP, they still have a chance of qualifying for the CL again, and could even finish 3rd - if we falter and Chelsea (both are likely). What I meant as well is that we have Bale - for now - and he's been our best player so naturally our other players will look to him first for inspiration. Currently that's working.

Re Holtby getting a "real kicking", not saying he was kicked but I thought he encountered a more physical team than what he's probably used to and wasn't getting any joy in the second half. The ref wasn't offering protection and he ended up on his a*se a lot. So AVB substituted him for someone who is more used to the physical demands of the PL and what happened? He nearly scored with his shot that spilled onto the post when Ade then missed his chance, and afterwards did manage to score our equaliser - however scrappy it was he was there to put it away.

Re Dembele/Carroll - turn that question on its head, how many goals scored and assists created for Dembele? Not many considering he's had more game time but that's because he sits deep. He'd also been booked and had one or two moments where he could have got a second yellow, so taking him off for Carroll (rather than a defensive player) was the right move.

As for your argument on defence/goalie not winning games, not sure many Arsenal fans would agree with you given that they have not had a solid back 5 (including goalie) for years whereas the likes of Chelsea have had Cech, Terry, Carvalho, Cole and Man U have had Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra - and have won trophies. You can't say that Arsenal have been light in attacking options over the last 7 years while they still had Henry, RVP, Fabregas, Walcott etc.? Many feel it is that lack of a quality back line (+ goalie) which has cost them games, competitions, success.

Maybe some teams do deserve better, and if West Ham had the quality they we do (or Bale if that's the case) then they may have got that. Ditto for a whole host of other teams over the years. I support AVB at the moment, but I'm not sure on Levy - why no players in January again etc. etc. r

Sfer, I'm not sure you can argue the depth of squad both ways. You seem to say that AV...

Sfer,
I'm not sure you can argue the depth of squad both ways. You seem to say that AVB hasn't worked magic as he had a squad to start with, then bemoan the use of Carroll/Livermore because the squad is light.

In the summer, between managers, there was a bit of dealing. We did lose a large part of the squad. The obvious big players (Modric,VdV) went and we also lost what I would class as good squad players (Corluka, Krancjar, Pienarr, Saha, Dos Santos, Bassong) - Pav I think had already gone, and Ade went back to Citeh. And Ledley retired. As for the 'ins', we seemed to have already been linked to Glyph and Vertigo - both 'Levy' style purchases. Dempsey/Dembele looked more AVB than Levy to me.

I'm not sure how much input AVB had in all that movement. The appearance (to me) seemed to be a clear out to get squad costs down. But we still ended up with Jenas, Bentley, Gomes left - and T'Hudd/Daws.

It was an odd pre-season and JJ and Bentley seemed to get pitch time, as though they may get a chance, and Daws and T'Hudd were heavily linked with moves away and AVB apparently also saying they were surplus.

So, to me, given the state of the squad after the cull and with Ade's status up in the air at the start of the season, the results under AVB haven't been too bad.

I'm not saying that I'm convinced by him either though, as I agree and to me the performances belie our position, just that overall, given the loss of VdV/Modric, and the lack of Ade for a large part of the first half of the season, and the cull of the squad (which didn't look to be AVB) - then the position is good. AVB, like any manager/player then needs time to show what he can do.

I thought with the changes in staff and manager, 6th would have been good. Now, at least for this week, we're still in with a shout for 4th/3rd.

The next summer window will then allow AVB to get who he wants - and there can be no more excuses for AVB than there were for 'arry or Jol in the transfer market. Either you believe that the manager is solely responsible for the transfer policy at Spurs, or you see the influence of Mr Levy. I saw the influence of Levy's hand last summer - mainly his hand.

Asking the question where would we be without Bale is a valid one in my book. Yes I apprec...

Asking the question where would we be without Bale is a valid one in my book. Yes I appreciate we do have him but the emphasis is on relying on one player is dangerous and needs to be addressed otherwise, if we lose him through injury of him being tempted away, where are we then? Mid table as I pointed out and as was expressed in the press only today.

I asked the question, which other PL team relies so heavily on just one player and no one replied. You have pointed out that Arsenal did with RVP and that is probably the closet comparison BUT looked what happened when he was tempted away. They have struggled to replace him or score goals and to play to the sdame standrad. If anything you pointing out the RVP situation only goes to prove my point.

The difference between us and WHU was Bale. Other than that they did as well as us. Take Bale off and that would have been a VERY ordinary mid table clash.

So AVB takes playeys off because they are getting a "real kicking"? Are you serious? So, apart from th efcat that that happens in every PL game and the fact that the Ref would surely have done something igf th etreatment of Holtby was THAT bad, the signal to teams we play is "if you kick us we will take our best players off" is that it?

Carroll is more attack minded that Dembele!! Exactly how many goals has attack minded Carroll scored in the PL?Oh no, hold on, NONE. How many assists? no that is not a statistic that shouts out from anywhere. How many shots? Nope, not there either.

You don't win games because your goallie or center back plays well - you draw them at best. Carroll and Livemore have done nothing so far IMO to say that they are anything better than average PL players. Lennon was completely ineffectual until the last 20 mins and even then he managed just two half decent crosses. Adebyor did nothing at all apart from a header which some would say he should have do ne better with. He missed a sitter that Arry's missus could have scored.

And the table doesn't lie? Oh come on. Stat wise it doesn't but we all know that some teams deserve better that then get and others get too much.

At the end of the day we want the same things. The only thing that differs is how we see success being achieved. I don't think AVB is the man to do it and I don't think the squad is strong enough to do it. As always, we shall see!