Liverpool Message Board
I am in shock & disbelief at the failure to bring in a new striker. I kno Woy was trying to bring someone in but it should have been sorted long ago and altho I'm not too disappointed that we failed to sign Carlton Cole at least he wouldve been a better option than Kuyt(neither a striker nor a winger), Babel(why is this guy still at the club?) or Ngog(how this guy ever got to play for LFC is beyond belief).
Torres aside our strike force is laughable, Torres will always be out injured at some stage of every 2month period, we will struggle to score goals when he injured. Look at last season ffs.
This is a disasterous mistake!!
Ajay a 4-3-3 formation is primarily playing with a lone striker and very similiar to what we have played with over the last 3-4 seasons and also add to that this exact formation produced our highest goals tally ever in the Premier League in terms of goals.
A 4-3-3 formation us playing with a lone striker - a left forward and a right forward which I previously stated is more or less the way we play now and when we are on the defensive it then becomes a like 4 like 4-5-1 formation.
We simply do not have the right players to adopt any other formation especially a 4-4-2 as most people have advocated for including myself at times.
Torres revels in the lone striker role and with the likes or Gerrard or Cole behind the lad he will have the creative type of player behind him that he needs someone that has the quality to put him in with one simple quality through ball, create him the space he needs, both players also have a good awareness, good control and both players most importantly know exactly how to play and what is required to adopt such a role.
It's all fine and well thinking that Kuyt can adopt such a role but a few have been a critical in the way his first touch and passing let him down and both these qualities are something that a player needs in such a position otherwise we are going to be back to square one as we are at times out on the right when due to bad decision making, quality of control and passing ability see so many moves breakdown you also need a sound tecnical minded footballer with good intelliegence to fit such a position, unfortunately Kuyt doesn't fit this description.
The only option for kuyt is a direct 2 up top partnership for me with Torres but then in saying that Kuyt at Feyenoord never ha d a direct partner and played the lone striker - Torres has done this aswell throughout his career in terms of never having a direct partner. I fully well feel and I'm ultra confident we have the players to be a success in our current formation as this is the only formation the current set of players can adopt to barring the odd 1 or 2 players.
If everyone is happier calling it Torres up front and Kuyt "in the hole" or whatever other term people want to use that is fine.
The fact is we would still be playing two people who are basically on the pitch as strikers and for me that is a better thing than having just one.
As for Torres, sorry but the guy just has to learn to fit in best with the team. If our best formation just happens to turn out to be 4-3-3 then he just has to adjust and live with it. If he can't there's the door.
Remember, no-one is bigger than the team.
Not even part-timer Torres.
we all know that Rafa was obssessed with grafters and it was always a good thing when blended with guile of Nando, Benayoun, Alonso et al. I think last year it became to much of a nescessity in his head and we ended up with Kuyt, Mascherano, Lucas all making the team and working their nuts of but not really having the ability someone like Aquilani has to create something out of nowhere.
I am excited about the thought of this midfield trio of Gerrard, Cole and Meireles plus the increasing possibilty of seeing Maxi and Pacheco playing alongside them but am also concerned that such a huge change of emphasis could take a lot of time and a lot of hard work for the weary legs of JC!
Not sure about this one, although would agree Maxi does have more natural technical ability. However to make up for that, I think Kuyt brings more hard graft, and discipline. I know many get frustrated with him for cutting inside (although this is the trait of the vast majority of modern wingers today), but he does have more positional discipline and will work the flank, where as I think Maxi is much more comfortable playing less as a winger, but an inside right, with the ball at his feet. That’s not necessarily one player being better than the other. The question is what is the coaches instructions to the player in terms of the wing play for that given match.
I know you won't agree with this, based on other posts you've put up on the subject, but going to throw it out there anyway. A player like Kuyt IMO allows us to have more of a threat from Johnson, than if we had an out and out winger out on the right.
Yes Kuyt will cough up the ball at times (as do most players occasionally), but he will also track back like few other players. When using a wing back system, which in effect on the right we do, when it goes right it provides an extra man that is very hard to defend against. However when it goes wrong it does leave the flank exposed forcing either a CB or DM to try and plug the hole. The key is to limit those exposures, and a workaholic willing to track back is one of the best ways of doing that.
Think about how much production we get down the left from the full back. Is that all down to the fact we don't have the same quality going forward from the full back alone, or does the lack of tracking back LW also hinder that side of the pitch?
I don't disagree that Kuyt would be useful in other areas of the pitch, although I'm not convinced that a traditional 2 man pairing of Kuyt and Torres is the way to go. That's more because I think Torres works better on his own as I've yet to see him at his best either with us, or with Spain when he's had an out and out striker next to him. For me I'd rather see Kuyt in the slot behind Torres (cleaning up the trash when the goalies spill the ball) or not so different from where he is know, in a 3 man front line, taking the inside right or left slot.
Dave, the thing about Maxi not putting as many crosses in as Kuyt is probably more to do with being a technically better player then Kuyt and getting wide then coming inside and looking for a dangerous pass rather then crossing balls for one striker to try and win on his own.
Ajay, agreed, Kuyt should be harrasing defenders in that Tevez like manner and taking some pressure of Nando. After all Kuyt is very similar to Tevez......except Tevez is actually fast......and skillfull. At least they are both ugly little gits.
I knew you could be relied upon to come through.
The Arsenal result is an interesting aberration for Mr Kuyt but I suppose it was first real game post WC euphoria.
As I said in my last paragraph of my previous post, whilst I don't rate him as a particularly great player he definitely has his uses. I just think right mid or right wing are not for him and we would get far more out of him if he were played in tandem with Torres. Kuyt is actually amazingly good in the air and he certainly can finish. Plus, if he is up in the box or thereabouts then there is less chance of him coming unstuck and killing us in midfield ;-)
I have worked out last season successful and unsuccessful passes between Kuyt, Insua and Benayoun. So here they are for it's worth %'s maybe a little out but not by much ;).
Comparing him to Maxi I think is much fairer, and in the last 3 games Maxi started (end of last season) he did have a better pass completion rate: 13 of 16 against Chelsea (81%), 37 of 46 against WHU (80%), and 38 of 44 against Burnley (86%). However looking at the chalkboards, he has much fewer crosses that Kuyt, which as I've said is a much lower percentage pass no matter how good a crosser you are.
I'm not sure I'd agree comparing a winger with a defensive midfielder is a good comparison. I would expect midfielders, especially holding ones to have a better pass completion rate. You've noted Alonso's stats, but even Lucas and Masch who few ever compliment on their passing had 93% and 90% against Man C and Arsenal respectively. They are linking up play, and if they can't pass they aren't doing that, while wingers or any more advanced player is trying to thread the needle and that is always going to be harder.
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