Liverpool Message Board
I see that a Mr Powar has suggested that the FA should charge Liverpool & Kenny for bringing the game into disrepute via their "undignified comments" and "lack of respect".
If you've read my posts recently you'll know that I have been critical of the clubs response but this is beginning to feel like a witch-hunt with everyone queuing up for their 5 minutes of fame.
Suarez has been banned and the club have accepted it (albeit with ill grace) - end of story.
I have a question for the FA though. My understanding (please correct me if I am wrong) is that Suarez was banned for 2 games for abusing Evra (doubled for mentioning race, double again for persistency). I also understand that Evra has admitted to abusing Suarez. So (if my understanding is correct) my question is this ...
Why have the FA not banned Evra for 2 games? Maybe we should get a petition together to send to the FA and ask the question.
Yes, I accept that you said that but nevertheless you had singled out Evra even to the point of suggesting, Tongue-in-cheek presumably, a petition. You plainly thought he was a special case. Didn't you?
No, I don't think Evra should be charged for the same reason I don't think kuyt should be investigated, which is that general chitchat between players is the business of the players, not the authorities. The difference with Suarez is the racist nature of the abuse. "why did you kick me" "because you're black" is a more serious concern than "get up you fucking prick" or anything I understand Evra to have said.
Robert you told us you read the report, its in there both the original Spanish and the translations (there are different interpretations depending on which part of the Spanish world you hail from) into English.
However typing it here would be a violation of the yahoo TOS (ironically typing in English or Spanish what Suarez said would not be) so either have a think since you seem to remember other parts of that report, or have a little re-read under "Evra Testimony".
Why would it be vindictive if the FA charged Evra? If LFC called for a charge (which they did, and we both agreed was wrong) that maybe considered vindictive. But if the FA charges him based on information that came to light in an FA sanctioned hearing, they are just upholding the rules they are there to enforce.
It seems your suggesting the FA should selectively enforce the rules of the game, which seems to be a clear case of being inconsistent.
Understandably the FA will not investigate every single case of abuse in the league. However they should at least consider every case that is brought to their attention. Whether that is because a player or manager complains (as Evra did) its contained within the Ref's match report, or as you said the press make a big fuss over it.
If Evra has complained about Kuyt abusing him the FA would have investigated, just as they did Suarez. Whether he should be charged depends on the strength of the case. So since the FA were clearly made aware of Evra's abusive language they should be consistent, and since its self admitted surely it’s a very strong case.
I did indeed refer to Evra in the opening thread but nowhere have I said that he should be investigated but not others - that is what you posted and that is what I objected to.
Do you accept that?
If your wish was to sum up where the discussion had got to it's odd that you seem to have missed that I have said that Evra was used as an example and that if the FA made a concerted attempt to act on all incidents then they could stamp it out.
Given that, in answer to your question -
"do you also think that Kuyt should be investigated"
Yes. Evra has claimed he was abused by Kuyt and I am suggesting that the FA could tackle this problem once and for all by investigating all abuse - not just abuse from non-Liverpool players.
They could have said something along the lines of ... all abuse of one professional to another is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Mr Evra has admitted abusing Mr Suarez and has been banned for two matches. Mr Evra has made claims against Mr Kuyt at that is subject to another investigation. It would have been a start.
As for your point about "Kuyt, Suarez and Comolli should be investigated for apparently fabricating evidence" - I ask once more ... what has that got to do with my post? If you want to start your own on the subject feel free.
Let me ask you a question - do you think the FA should charge Evra for his abuse of Suarez and, if not, why not?
Well, it's a point of view but I don't think it's practical and I predict it will never happen. Football is a physical game with some aggression. I don't think you can remove all the aggression and an attempt to do so would fail.
The racial element is different because (i) it is against the law of the country and (ii) football is attempting to improve the situation and its image in that area.
The other examples you give - disability and sexual leanings are also covered by national legislation and would be regarded as unacceptable, I suspect. Being offensive about someone's relative having cancer may well seem worse (and be worse) but I think it's best left out of the realm of sanctions.
Again, I wasn't attempting to misrepresent you, just sum up where the discussion had got to.
But you did single out Evra in the very opening post of the thread.
If you do think that Evra should be investigated now, do you also think that Kuyt should be investigated for allegedly abusing Evra, and that Kuyt, Suarez and Comolli should be investigated for apparently fabricating evidence?
Or should we forget about more panels and charges?
I seem to remember that Mazzaratti (the Italian defender involved) also picked up a ban for his verbal abuse of Zidanes sister.Surely this sustains the view that Evra should have picked up a ban as well though this would not have suited the Agenda.
"To pick out Evra and say he should be penalised because he said in evidence that he did stuff for which you believe he could be convicted but to say that other people shouldn't be retrospectively penalised because they haven't yet admitted it, even though there is sufficient evidence for a conviction, is itself inconsistent."
Once again Robert, I will ask you not to put words in my mouth.
I haven't said "other people shouldn't be retrospectively penalised" - you did. If you read my post further down the page I am suggesting that if everyone was penalised then the problem would stop.
So not a witch hunt after all eh?
I do understand.
It's just that every now and again 'we' (media/fans/fa) choose to get outraged by players behaviour towards each other/referees.
The message from this case if Evra is not charged is that it's fine to abuse other players (or at least we turn a blind eye to it) as long as it doesn't include a reference to race. How about a reference to someones disabled or recently deceased relative - would that be ok? What about a reference to someones sexuality? Maybe a players wife has cancer - how about "she'll be dead by next season" ... is that an acceptable wind up?
When the Italian defender abused ZZ in the WC final a few years back my memory says that it had something to do with his disabled sister. Most of the criticism at the time was reserved for the French man losing his cool and butting the Italian. Maybe he should have ignored it or laughed it off - but why should he have to?
You say it isn't practical - I disagree. If the FA make examples out of every player who does it and hurts them and the clubs badly enough then it would be stopped within a month - the clubs and managers would make it happen. Same with diving.
Until then it will carry on until 'we' decide that one player has gone over the top in any particular incident and then 'we' can wring our hands and tell everyone how disgraceful it all is.
Queue every man and his dog getting their 5 minutes of fame.
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