Liverpool Message Board
People on here know that I'm not usually negative about things but a double substitution as we scored was a mistake on Brendan's part. As soon as we scored, he should have told the boys to sit down and give those lads on the pitch another 10 minutes.
I don't think it's coincidence that Zenit started creating chances after our third went in because the midfield was still adjusting. We had half an hour and could afford to be patient. This isn't wisdom in hindsight either - I'm convinced we would have won without those subs happening at that time!
Have to agree with you Loki. It seemed like he was about to send Shelvey on just before the 3rd goal went in. Shelvey looked at BR to say 'well should I sit back down'? Even he knew it wasn't right for him to come on. We had the momentum, upper hand, so we should have kept faith with the eleven out there, even for another 10 mins or so. The substitutes were sent out cold, making it difficult to engage with the flow of things and it fragmented our play even becoming desperate IMO. I do hope BR learned from this and doesn't make that mistake again.
- 1 Reply to MichaelM
Why is the assumption that the subs were made for tactical reasons? Does someone know that is the case from some source I've missed?
I'm not saying they weren’t or if they were whether it was a good idea or not, but just suggesting that players might have been withdrawn in order to keep energy levels up, and let’s be frank Allen has not played that much lately, and when he has he's not done great. I personally think he did a great job last night, however the gaffer might have pulled him before he anticipated he might start flagging and replaced him with another player who is known for his energy.
Loki..agree 100% the subs at that time caused us to lose shape inthe midfield and allowed Zenith that bit more space to get their game going again...would have been better to sit those two lads back down and let the adrenalin of that third goal work its magic for the 11 lads out on the pitch at the time who had done such a great job of domination of the midfield and keeping Zenith under constant pressure...in short BIG MISTAKE.However well done the lads no disgrace in thumping this side 3.1 they are nobodys mugs a good side they proved that on their home turf.
- 1 Reply to colin
Isn't the end of that a slight contradiction? I mean if Zenit are nobody’s mugs, which I agree with, and we beat them 3-1, I'm not sure we could of made many if any Big Mistakes.
The other point, and forgive me if I'm barking up the wrong tree here, but from what you posted I read it was a great job by the lads, but not the manager, or maybe a great job despite the manager. I'm just curious as I know you've made up your mind on BR, although would like to be proven wrong, but if it’s his fault when a result goes against us, but the lads credit when the result goes for us, at what point if any can we give any credit to the gaffer?
I would just like to add that I didnt have huge confidence in Shelvey coming on at the time but appreciate he is the more likely to score or cause a problem then Allen depsite his goal? It seemed an attacking move at the time but it turned out that we just conceded a bit of domination by doing so. To be honest I think we just ran out of steam a little bit whilst Zenit realised that they couldnt just defend and see it out whilst they knew the next goal would kill them. Don't trust my opinion though, I got a bit excited and was completely blotto by the time the 3rd goal flew in! I enjoyed myself all the same.
It was an odd move and against generally accepted footy wisdom. Like you say, we'll never know for sure. If it was a mistake, then let's hope that BR is learning lots from his first season in charge. I thought his admission of a mistake in team selection for the Oldham match was a good sign.
Agreed Loki, even i was saying #$%$, look at it logically.
He decided to make the subs because of what he saw was happening on the pitch.
That changed the minute you just scored.......ridiculous.
when you are in that zone of power play with passion and you score..........keep it going, if anything it would have given those existing 11, more momentum..
what an idiot..............great game though, but you went out. Typical.
Suarez dived for the free kick though...!!!!
Not sure on this one to be honest Loki. At the time I was scratching my head as we did have the initiative having just scored and one would have hoped the confidence of the lads on the pitch would have pushed them on.
However looking at this from another side, it could be argued that BR felt it was time to put them to the sword by throwing more attacking minded players at them while they were down. In that sense it was a bold move, and it’s hard for anyone to say he took the easy way, or lacked initiative.
In fact Assaidi looked very direct, ran at their right back and could have been the difference. However Shelvey did not imo improve us, and while Allen may have been tiring (one possible guess on why he was withdrawn) he had done a very good job up till then keeping the ball moving and transitioning the ball from the back to the front. But then again a slight different trajectory on the ball JonJo fired into the side netting and he'd have been the hero and this thread would never have been started.
Bottom line for me, in hindsight the subs did not or could not change the outcome, however I'm not sure they were a mistake. We'll never know what would have happened if they had not been made, or even if they had been delayed by 10 minutes or so. Yes pulling Hendo and especially Allen opened up holes in our middle, which allowed Zenit more of the ball in our half but they did not or could not capitalize from that. However without putting on players willing to run at the Zenit back line it’s hard to say for sure keeping the original personnel would have been a better bet on getting the 4th goal.