Liverpool Message Board
Hi Paddy. I find the Gerrard band wagon is a little frustrating at times. Stating a negative opinion is seriously frowned upon. He is a legend no doubt but I honestly don't think he's all that of a player. Give him room and he'll rip anyone to shreds granted. West Brom most recently but when games are tight with a pressing midfield he's rubbish. I could write essays on what I don't like about him in those situations. I would also note that it's situation that becomes clearer in an England side who are in all honesty pretty poor.
Sorry for the harsh words but I'm saying it as I see it. He is however our best central midfielder at present. No doubt.
Lucas has never convinced me. Stats say otherwise but I just don't like what I see. Henderson is all effort and will be an ok player and a grafter but is he the quality we really want in there? Allen, again he will be a good player but needs that quality alongside him. That way he can relax a bit. But can we carry him?
Another point on the game. I thought it was a slightly bizarre decision to take a midfielder off, an area where we'd struggled all game to put Moses on. Unsurprisingly Everton got their goal as we were adjusting to it. Again Gerrard was out of position on more than one occasion allowing a free run for Everton on the back 4 and goal. Agger too I agree Jason.
It's a harsh reality that we need to seriously look at this area. Please note that neither Benites or Houllier played Gerrard in central midfield. As I've said elsewhere we have an opportunity this year, perhaps one that wont come round for a while again. It must be grasped. Even if we do manage a European spot for next season. This midfield will not cut the bacon at that level. We will be torn to shreds I'll tell you now.
As a final note Rodgers is becoming a little too ready to change systems for my liking. Stick to one system but feel free to move players in and out of that system to change the dynamic to the game and team. That's my preferenc
Er....I have to disagree there. We've had the results but I've been far from impressed with our performances thus far. First half against Stoke and that's it. Every other game we have been hanging on for long periods. Possession stats say we don't have as much of the ball as the other team. The grit, determination and resolve is great but it will only get you so far.
Rodgers wants to play possession football and we don't do it. I've highlighted above why I don't think that's the case. I don't see anyone in the squad that can really turn it round either. Gerrard can't play a possession game from where he is currently playing. And I don't rate Lucas any higher either. It is that simple honestly. Allen believe it or not is the best fit style wise but there's issues that he and the team need to resolve for him to be fully effective.
From what we have available I understand the 3-5-2 but that doesn't excuse the very poor execution of playing out from your defensive line.
Ah ha got there in front of you for a change ;o)
That doesn't sound like enough to sack someone. We lose targets all the time. Most clubs do with say 2-3 clubs getting almost everyone. They being the two Spanish giants and Bayern. Everyone scraps for it.
To me it sounds like there's something not happening to plan or they want a change for some reason. That surprises me as I though Rodgers had aligned the youth system with first team affairs and McParland was happy with it.
It's a strange one.
Yeah I keep trying to comment on this spot. There are good people here. I do wish it would pick up a bit though.
On Saturday the result was right. No complaints about that. Plenty on the way we were set up and played though.
Does anyone think that the three at the back system that we currently employ played into Arsenal's hands a bit?
To me it's a system that invites pressure and if there's one team in the PL that you shouldn't be allowing a free run in midfield is Arsenal. I'm not convinced it's right for us. I'm also not convinced that Agger shouldn't be playing.
hey no problem and it's all about opinion anyway. i'm glad I'm not the one taking these decisions. I think we agree that Gerrard can go missing but yes I also agree he has become a lot more disciplined but I look at how he plays for us and England and to be honest I find it quite flat. Nowhere hear as dynamic as we know he can be. So my point is play him in a position where he can be a little bit more defensively slack but at the same time really influence the game going forward.
Johnson for me will suit this formation as he will know he has cover. Playing full back (I disagree with you here DSteer) is harder now. They effectively play like wingbacks but do the same job from deeper. That means more ground and less cover behind so it's more physically demanding and mentally. It's the toughest position to play nowadays in my opinion.
If Gerrard has to stay deep then I'd be tempted to throw Alberto in there. He has that thing in his game that makes me sit up and take notice straight away. A player that looks as if they have all the time in the world and he plays with his head up.
Ok but at least we agree generally. I just feel there is something fundamentally wrong somewhere. We target and buy players with a pretty decent pedigree and they turn out to poor or not suited and it's frustrating.
Allen for example was a key player in a Swansea side that relied on movement and passing. We don't see it, although I do not blame him completely for that.
Aspas came as a player with some potentially and a technically astute player. Struggling.
Sterling is a most promising youngster. Fallen off the rails some what. Suso too and Pacheco now gone was the same.
I can keep going all they way back through Benitez's time and beyond. It's weird how we struggle to get value for money.
Happy with the results but the manner in which we're going about things makes me nervous. Too many times this season we've allowed the opposition to have too much of the game. So far we've got away with it but it wont last especially when everyone realises that if they play a very high line against us they can squeeze us back and we'll just sit there and try to soak it up.
There are things that need to be sorted in the back 6 (as I call them) that's the back 4 and the two sitting in front of them.
No objection to 3-5-2 either provided we have players for it and we certainly don't in the middle of the park at the moment. I know I'm harsh on Gerrard and Lucas but it's just the way i see it. Gerrard is a legend but he's no Xavi, Alonso, Keane or Scholes for that matter and for me Lucas just doesn't contribute enough when in possession.
But still the results are positive so I'll keep moaning and celebrating at the same time......................................
Playng for Wales will help Allen. Firstly feeding off Ramsey (and Bale perhaps) and secondly adding some grit to his game because we are rubbish.
Allen will thrive in a team that has good movement. At the moment we aren't at that point and he suffers as a result. Just watch how many times a defender will carry the ball out and beckon for someone to make themselves available or a full back hoofs it.
For me the decision is easy in some respects
You play your best 11 available 11 week in week out. No reason not to as the game load isn't excessive.
Forward line of Sturridge and Suarez with Coutinhio in the hole.
Back for of Glenda, Skrtel, Agger and bets available left back. Toure should and will give Agger a run for his money. Sakho and Cissokho need to catch up.
Big question for me is the best balance in midfield. Gerrard plays as he's our best. Henderson next and then for it's a toss up between Lucas and Allen. But as you know this is the area that bugs me the most. Do they play as a three across the pitch or two and one or two and two with Gerrard and Coutinhio pushing on a bit.
It's tough and we look weak on the left.
Guys, my fear is that sitting back only gets you so far. Teams have already sussed that pushing hard on the full backs and in central midfield will give us problems. We've seen it every game and you can only ride your luck for so long. I fear we'll lose a couple and then drop like a stone.
keeping the ball is the way forward, for me anyway and we can fiddle systems all we like but at the end of the day iot comes down to personnel and their ability. I still think we're missing something in the middle.
lets see what happens in the next game.
I still keep thinking about it. You're right and I believe I was also right in my earlier posts on other threads. It stems from a lack of midfield quality and movement. I saw Toure gesturing for movement on one occasion and Sakho and Cissokho just hoofing it because there was no option.
We are incredibly easy to play against and that bugs me.
I don't think Moses was away but I may be wrong. Wont be the first or the last time
I agree on Alberto. Moses can catch a taxi beck to Chelsea. Not good enough and I hope we don't see him in a red shirt again. The quality isn't there.
For me Lucas needs to expand his game as well. I don't see hi m contributing enough either.
Lukaku gave Skrtel a problems all afternoon. He struggled with his pace more than anything.
I'll say it again. We were hopeless in midfield. Simply failing to retain possession and kill the game. Agreed. Lucas is just not good enough. Apart from a few blocks what does he offer apart from a constant stream of poor tackles and fouls in bad positions? One lead to Everton's first goal. When in possession he does nothing. I've been saying these same comments for years. Allen struggled because he was chasing all afternoon as was Henderson. The game was too tight for Gerrard to influence. He thrives in space but cut that out and he's hopeless. Some needed to put their foot on the ball and basically take charge. It didn't happen.
Flannagan had a nightmare against Berkley but when he moved inside he got much better.
Agreed on Glenda marking Lukaku at a set piece? Bonkers!
The more I see of Sturridge the more I like. He retains possession, holds the ball up and of course scores goals.
We were lucky and unlucky. yes it should have been a red card and the lost Baines another part of their supply line but they had more of the ball and more of the chances. Glad to see some grit to get a point in the end but had we been better in midfield we would have walked that game. Retain the ball and with Suarez and Sturridge life will be a peach!
If Rodgers were to stick with the system you have above then I'd be tempted to put Henderson in place of Gerrard and move him into the free role behind Sturridge and Suarez.
For me Gerrard's tendency to wander is a problem in a midfield position where discipline is critical. Problem is I don't thing Gerrard or Henderson can play the midfield general role but Henderson is an option based on what's available. Gerrard further forward may give Newcastle something extra to think about. I believe Collocini (spelling) may be out. Not sure.
yes Jason I've seen some of what you've posted but some doesn't seem to appear which is a bit odd. I can see that you have put something up but it's not visible.
Anyway my concern is that this system leaves us playing too deep. Then as you say you get a mobile centre forward who will drag a defender out of position combined with an advanced full back and you basically have gaps. Firstly in front of the back three because they're too deep and then behind the full back and no cover as the defenders have been pulled out of shape. If there is a side that can exploit that, it is Arsenal. As you say certain teams will thrive on it. Newcastle certainly did.
You're right about Johnson. I think the decision to allow Wisdom to go on loan is proving to be a poor one as I though he deputised quite well last season. I also want to know about Kelly. He's been playing for the U21's for some time now. Johnson is also concern as he seems to miss more than a few games.
Anyway we need to pick ourselves up and see if we can improve dramatically. At the moment our league position is, in my opinion a false one. But with other teams spluttering a bit we need to try and take advantage of it.
I agree. The more I see the 3 central defenders the less I like it. It makes the team sit too deep and concede possession. Arsenal exposed this.
Time to get Coutinho, Sturridge and Suarez playing together with the option of bring Alberto into the mix.
Midfield still worries me and is the prime reason behind the majority of our poor play this season. A stronger midfield with the defenders and forwards we have available and we'd be flying I tell you. I believe it needs to be addressed this Christmas or we'll struggle. Firstly I don't think we'd make a CL spot without addressing that area. We certainly wouldn't last 5 minutes in the CL without sorting it. And lastly and probably most importantly we will lose players if we fail to get a CL spot. CL clubs will be looking and watching over Coutinho, Sturridge and obviously Suarez.
the thing that impressed me most (apart from Suarez) was our possession stats. That's what I want to see week in week out. Sadly we don't but I wonder if Rodgers like you Jason has seen enough of Lucas to be a bit worried?
Agreed on the Norwich goal. Poor defending full stop. Agger was guilty of being on his heels and the guy got that little half yard in front of him. It's a bad habit he has. Great on the ball but gets stuck on his heels and becomes a bit slow to react.
No Agger on Saturday either Jason. Perhaps he is listening!
Injuries are becoming a worry now but Allen has picked his game up a bit too.
probably the best way is to get a link out there to those people. The reason I got lost was the link via Yahoo disappeared and search engines wont find it either.