Cardiff City Message Board
I think you know my stance, and ironically, while I wasn't here on the boards these 5-6 years ago, when Lucas was absolutely tortured by everyone, and dire, I actually told friends to support the lad, as I saw things in him, that I see in Jordan now, such as good pace, work rate, effort and the desire.
Aside from the work rate, and desire, I just don't see these things in him anymore, and I don't even think it's his fault all together, but such is life. Medically speaking, from what I do know, and seeing it so often in the NFL and American sports, tearing the ACL, can be career ending, even if you come back, and it was evident that when he came back 2 years ago, he wasn't right, and I feared he'd hurt something else, and he tore his thigh muscle.
I think these have had dramatic effects on him with regards to his legs, footwork and movement. If he was still able to regain those, and still quite young, 25/26, then we still have a very good (not great) player. But the things you eluded to, cannot be changed, such as vision, passing range, offensive skill, and for me, back to the medical/surgical part, he cannot elevate to win many headers or aerial duels, that I even noticed Sterling and Allen competing for.
In short (my medium), he's luck to get in some timely clearances, or sliding challenges, with a good knowledge of where to be, but that's it. I do know Rafa was suggesting he'd be interested in bringing him to Napoli (along with our whole team), and 1-2 other Brazilian/Italian clubs, but nobody of lofty stature, and at this point, because his pace isn't heavy, just flat out slow, with no good movement and the other limitations, makes him a 4th choice, or important squad player. On second look he was okay vs Spuds, but had Redknapp still been there with all that talent, we know the setup would have been different, and he would have been a target of their paciest /creative player(s).. It's sad, but truth really..
Hey Michael, welcome back (don't recognize the name ha)
I mean, with Glen(duh), he/she is either fantastic, or not, never anything completely consistent. When we got him from Pompey, he was a stunningly good talent, and that first year he scored goals and assists galore, which more than made up for avg. defending, but now you never know.
The irony of it all is, I, and presumably most, figured Lennon and Walker would tear down our left side vs Flanny/Coutinho, and they ended up looking foolish vs a 20 and 21 yo, while any chance created, for all our dominance, came against GlenDA, letting Chadli or whomever else, beat him to the byline and get in very dangerous crosses, all dealt with magnificently by Skrtel and Sakho (who by the way as the new SAS, is our best pairing). Glen also let Chadli waltz in for an absolutely free smashing header, that any striker or polished aerial player would have buried, and it would have been 1-1. He needs to up it a notch on both sides. If Kelly was/is 100% fit, I'd trade the occasional mazy run forward for his no nonsense defending.
As for Gerrard, when fully fit, he could be eased in, and then actually take over for Lucas, because to be honest, he can do anything Lucas, can or can't, in addition to his long range passing and set pieces. But I think we should be hardpressed to break up Jordan/Allen, and we all hoped it would look that way, with Coutinho/Alberto floating in front.
2-3 more players, maybe 2, one a serious wide/goal scoring threat like "Tello", and we can be frightening good. Coulda beat Spuds 8-0, and that's being kind..
Hey, I never really slated him too much, in fact, when we bought him, I was only a bit shocked/disappointed because I thought Sinclair was the best player at Swans and a perfect suit for us. BUT, I backed up on Allen saying, that I thought he was team GB's 2nd/3rd best player at the Olympics along with Sturridge and Bellamy.
We (us/media) get carried away with these "monster" types, because there are the likes of Yaya, who is a rare breed, and some others like him, but (not the same player) Mascherano was a midget, and completely wrecked the midfield, but offered literally nothing going forward. Again, not the same player, but it's easy to understand, when you're smaller like Allen, that you have to go in with leverage, and if you have a broken shoulder, as he apparently did all season, why he wouldn't be too confident or be able to throw his body in..
Hey Colyn / Paddy,
You still can't wipe the smile off my face.. quite honestly, other than the 4-1 at OT, and the 5-0 v Madrid, albeit not quite the same level, though it was for me, I can't remember a better performance in a big game. Spuds was big, because if we'd lost, we'd be 5th!!!
Anyhow, on another sidenote, Alberto has quietly been getting in more, and got almost 25 mins yesterday in the 10 spot, and picked up 2 assists!! I think only 1 will register, but all the same, and our other S-a-S, Skrtel and Sakho looked as solid and assured as our CBs as long as I can remember..
With all the experience Flannagan, and Sterling are getting now, with Coutinho racking up quality performance, and now Allen showing his true value, we can only get better, especially come January and whatever we do.
For me, while our corners, and a few free kicks really suffered without Gerrard, it was a blessing in disguise because our midfield was fast, aggressive, dynamic, and when Gerrard comes back, he can take over for Lucas, who for me, just still wasn't at the races, and seems to be fading like an old player, sadly to say. He loves Liverpool, Liverpool loves him, but if not for a few lunging clearances, or the occasional sweep the ball out of bounds, he just really isn't up to it. Allen and Jordan made Sandro/Paulino look stupid.. And Gerrard can tackle, run, jump, and certainly pass a heck of a lot better than Lucas.
But, I don't want to be too critical, it was an absolute masterpiece, and the best under BR, who played all down as if it was a 1-0 scoreline.. Class!
I was absolutely terrified of this game, the last time we won there, Torres scored the winner and I decided to wear my long sleeve Torres that was collecting dust, and I stood, motionless, for one of the most brilliant, breathtaking and amazing performances I can ever remember!!
I'm over the moon and back again, like a kid on Christmas day, I just can't seeeeem to get ennnnough!!!!!
I'm curious as to where Mel (Rodgers is a mid table manager), Colin (Coutinho is a lightweight, Sturridge a flake, Allen a waste of money, Adam the business, Andy the best CF in England) are.. Where are you guys? Are you enjoying our tipi tappa, boring, sideways passing football?
5-00000 in our house of horrors, and a super, massive well well well done to Allen, Jordan, Flanny, Sterling, Coutinho, Sakho and all our #$%$ youth/buys and of course you know who.. Skrtel haha!
Let's carry on this form, dust off Cardiff, and keep Rockin and Rolling!!!!!!!!!!! Done with my rant, and actually going to use the bathroom finally..
Long way to go, but so proud to be an LFC fan today, more than ever!
I'm absolutely delirious over this result and it could be 10-0 if your crappy light weights, (Colin) could stay up on the wet pitch..
ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT, and the last time we won at the Lane, Torres scored the winner, so I wore my long sleeve Torres
I know you're not Moses biggest fan, I had been at Wigan, and what he did at Chelsea last year, was impressive numbers wise, esp with who Rafa had at his disposal, and he started well for us, but has dipped. BUT, you forgot Sterling.. He's put in two consecutive very good, competitive, and consistent performances, and I don't really see any way he's not the first name to flank Suarez on either side..
Unfortunately, I think we all know it will be a triangle, with Lucas / Allen deep, and Henderson going forward, BUT maybe BR does shock us, though I really can't see Alberto starting this game, which despite Spuds failures to date, is a massive match, and one that will have the intensity/pace of a derby. Same for Aspas, though I could see both getting good minutes, at least Alberto who merits them..
Only real major changes I'd venture to guess, could be something at fullback with Kelly / Glenda over Flanny, and then Sakho vs Agger.. Other than that, minus Gerrard, inclusion of Lucas, I don't see a lot changing at WHL.. But let's roll with what's working!!
Hey Loki, From anything I have seen, amongst the 800 players we're linked with, Diame, is mentioned as a "loan", which makes no sense. You could argue he's West Ham's best player.. A January purchase would be AWESOME, and who knows, but I keep seeing loan, and that can't really add up.
I think up until he eventually ends up on Spurs or Italy, we'll keep hearing of Damaio unfortunately. From what was suggested this past summer, we had our chance on a plate, the price was right, and they were sellers, but we didn't move.
The names I love, and keep seeing, both loan/purchase, in January are both Montoya, and my personal favorite Tello, who admitted to turning us down in the summer, but has recently said he's looking to leave. I fully agree that we need firepower up top, but I think it has to be an adaptable type, who will also start even when Sturridge is fit, so a Tello, or Jeremy Menez, who play as wide attacking strikers. Any other name along those lines, then another midfield presence. Jorginho has been super impressive now up in Serie A..
I wouldn't rule out Cabaye, Pastore, Cisse, and perhaps a Benteke situation developing..
Time to separate the men from the boys, and let's see some of the players who've done a lot of talking (or shall I say complaining) step up, now that their chances will come. I'd expect to see Alberto, who I've been screaming for, and slowly been adding in minutes of late, getting a real run, and I think we could see something special with him/Coutinho/Suarez.. Aspas, will now get a chance again being fit, and having been yapping, before he finds himself on loan to Valencia.
As for midfield, statistics, and last week (most of the season, this and last), show when Jordan plays a central figure, he becomes an engine, a master of nothing, but outstanding at many things. Lucas having been dropped (FINALLY) the last 2 matches, has seen our best midfield performances of the season, Allen was a bulldog, and a passing machine in his stead. Lucas will come back in, but have 1 very simple role, and who knows, maybe he doesn't, and Jordan/Allen sit at the back of the triangle, and Alberto heads it up, with Coutinho and Sterling wide.
Kelly, looked fit and hungry, and I wouldn't be stunned to see him start at RB with Glenda shifting left, because while Flanny has been solid, he offers very little going forward, and Cissokho, is obviously just collecting a paycheck. S A S - Skrtel and Sakho, were very physical and commanding vs WHU, and while Spuds on paper or per paycheck, look fast and pretty, have shown nothing but dour, daft footy, BUT have a very physical side, and it's screaming Vertoghen, Paulino, Dawson etc., nicking something from Corners, which is why I'd leave S A S together in favor of Agger.
BUT, regardless of Gerrard, we have everything else with Coutinho / Suarez /Sterling's form, to push AVB's defensive mind to the limit. He will start 3 CDM's, so we could very well, outskill them, which isn't something I've thought in years for this fixture.. At least, it's how I think BR and AVB are planning, respectively..
Hey, we started out last year with so many changes, yet always lofty expectations, and a schedule like this out of the gates, so we always loved this better, until now..
I like to look one game at a time, but it's hard for any of us, including the players, though we all know, even at our lowest of low points in the past 4-5 years, we've always risen to these sides, home and away.
Plus, everyone around our area except Everton (they could win 7 in a row!), is playing each other now, tightly congested.
To be the best, you have to beat the best!
Although many would be reluctant to say it, or acknowledge they saw it, albeit quietly done, Allen was arguably our best all around player in that match, not named Suarez.
I read the stats, and watched a video compilation of 4-5 minutes of just his play, and it was the Welshman who was a shining light at the Olympics for team GB, and more.
The loss, while we may benefit, and some calling for it, of Gerrard is going to be tough. He leads in assists and our 3rd leading scorer. He is better than Lucas at 33 on 1 leg, BUT, now we will be forced to use Allen, Jordan and Lucas all in the middle of the park where they belong, and can play an aggressive, high tempo, press, pass and move style, whereas he has been restricted to deep lying playmaker. He has adapted to it well, but it's not necessary in BR's ideal style.
This will also guarantee Sterling a run of games, Alberto ALOT more time, and put Aspas and Moses in hungry / passionate competition to show they belong in the squad, or at least quality impact minutes.
I sure hope so Colyn.. The commentary I had, one of, if not my very favorite, Gary Weaver, said something to the affect of Lucas perhaps getting a blow for the day with a congested fixture list, and maybe (sadly for us) that could have been the reason. But even every now and again, a blind man can see a light...
If we can see it, the fans at the matches can see it, the players can see it, and all the coaches in training. And, it's quite simple, Rodgers said we were poor, our possession wasn't what he wants/wanted, too many give aways, and too slow in build up. So, the formula is, put in your 2 or 3 (in our case/system) best/quickest midfielders, who are best on the ball.
Allen, while not Bastian Schweinsteiger or Yaya Toure, was quietly impressive, won challenges, and moved the ball, even if they were sideways 10 yards, the ball was moving, in turn that allows Gerrard or Henderson to look to distribute or burst, and allow the rest of the build up play. Even moreso, we didn't give away so many needless fouls, and Lucas by facts / cards is our worst serial offender. I'd rather Stevie give a foul for crushing someone in a tackle, than a shirt tug by Lucas for getting turned.
My fear, though it could go either way, is that West Ham are a bigger, physical team, and Diame is super impressive for his size, so Lucas may well get back in. As for Agger, I'm tired of chop and change back there, but maybe Sakho gets the nod here, w/ Skrtel, so they can deal w/ Cole up top
So, Rodgers has been reading our messages Colyn, Paddy, and Loki.. shame the others are missing or in hibernation, as this is really quite an achievement!
I think we all vehemently agreed as I've been harping that it's time for Lucas to go, and Allen to get minutes to do something, and keep Jordan in the midfield, while playing with 2 wide players.
Yes it was Norwich, yes Suarez loves them and so do our players, but our midfield was much more tidy for the most part, you got a lot more possession / less giveaways, with Jordan and Allen grinding in there, and while Agger is a walking mistake, he's a better partner to our unquestioned best defender, Skrtel..
May have been a nice header, but once again, a set piece, and Agger losing his marker via falling down or a shirt pull or whatever. Would be nice to just keep a clean sheet one of these days.. I find it hard to believe that Mertesacker and Koscielny are more talented or stronger than Agger, but he just proves me wrong, and those who are enamored by him over the machine #37..
Anyways +4 goals made up, and still in the top 4, with some big collisions for others coming, and maybe we're finding a top gear, with Alberto having gotten minutes, and Allen settling! YNWA
Biggest problem is, and obviously highlighted even moreso over the last 4 years, is lack of games. We've missed Europa on 2 of the past 4 seasons, and some say that's a blessing, I'm one of them, but the hypocrite in me, says they are extremely valuable games, especially the early group stages, where all the good teams get the most from their squad.
We haven't had good luck in the Carling Cup the past 2 years, though last year, the likes of Sterling etc were given a chance, and dropped the ball badly. This year we had to go through OT, so obviously we couldn't hand out chances, but if we'd won, we may be playing a Wigan or whomever is left, which would allow more PT for these guys. Hopefully the FA Cup will afford that.
And, overall, BR has been a bit erratic IMO, in when he sticks to his horses, and when he changes. No reason to play Kolo vs Hull, when Agger or Sakho would have been fine, and it pushed Skrtel to LCB, when he's been our best/his best at natural RCB. Allen would have been perfect for ball retention, but went with Sterling, who had good moments, but not many.
Aspas could have been given a runout, and Alberto much sooner, if not a start.
BR and the players have to get it right today, and then again vs WHU. No ifs and ors buts about it, because while I like to take it one game at a time, 3pts at a time, if we don't collect 6/6, we will be in a very bad place, going to Spurs, with City/Chels looming, while everyone in the top 4-6 with us, has very very favorable fixtures over the next 2 as well, so i don't see many points dropped. We need to win, and score goals, period!
We're singing the same tune, I just happen to find dead wood a little harsh a description, but point taken.
As for Aspas, he had a torn groin/hernia, but he's back, though surely he didn't have enough time to work himself into the plans, or over Sterling / Moses.
I think Lucas is a squad player at best, Jordan should play there next to Stevie, because while he's not a wrecking ball, very few players will run past him, and certainly not through him. I think we're doing ourselves a great injustice by not playing/grooming him there. Afterall, Lucas came on board as "young attacking Brazilian of the year".
Borini couldn't have started with any worse luck, and I'm not his biggest fan, but to be stuck as a winger, breaking a foot and dislocating a shoulder in 6 months, isn't the ideal start, and the 3-4 goals he has scored for us and Sunderland were crackers. He needs to prove his worth there, because the thought was getting him game time behind S&S, and Aspas.
Overall for me, time to drop Lucas, Kolo, figure out 1 back 4, even if it means Agger or Sakho at LB, not Flannagan, and give Skrtel one partner he can gel with. Stevie/Jordan/Allen in the middle, then Suarez, Coutinho, Aspas up front. 11 best until January comes, then we dump who needs to go, and bring in who is available, and they are available...
What irks me the most, is the lack of time given to Luis Alberto above all of them. Sevilla really did not want to sell him, but their hand was forced, and he was the standout for Barca B, along with Delofeu (tearing it up for Everton). He plays the 10 spot and wide in a 4-3-3, so if Coutinho is hurt, Allen isn't preferred, then play him. He can only get so good in training and indoor matches, vs. those who get real game time.
As for the overall transfers, I tend to be more liberal and fair to Rodgers because he showed outrageous ambition this past summer with desperately wanting Mkhitaryan, Willian, and Diego Costa (La Liga's leading scorer) and couldn't get any of the 3 due to funds and lack of CL. This is why we took Moses on the last day/hours of the window.
This January (and what we do up til then) is the most critical period in many a year. There are players out there, who have dropped out of the CL, and some not in any European contention whatsoever, and it's vital that we get the 2-3 of them, early, done and dusted.
If that's not the case, then Alberto, Aspas, Allen, should all be playing, and working their socks off to state their case, along with Sterling and Ibe. There should be very little rotation at the back, just look at Arsenal, a club notorious for being fragile and frail back there, with doubts over Koscielny's size/strength, and Mertesacker's pace and ability, yet they've started almost every game together, and I think have 2nd best Defense in the prem, with out a real class CDM.. Skrtel/Agger or Sakho, end of
I'm not really sure where the deadwood was in this one, unless we're just saying Sterling needs to go out on loan, and Flannagan is an abberation, which it seems (never rated him). I guess the issue there is, we've got Kelly, who can't get a game even against Hull, Cissokho, the same deal, and Flannagan a fish out of water at LB, so depth at both sides remains an issue, hence all the chatter about Montoya of Barcelona. And, the irony is, it seems we now overspent at CB, since even a player of Ilori should be in a match day squad, AND Coates is nearing fitness again, with Agger and Sakho warming the bench.
In a nutshell, this game was very reminiscent of the Southampton game, only Hull have far less talent and weapons, and pretty much invited us on all match, and dared us to come forward, even allowed us nearly 70% of the ball at times. We couldn't string 3 passes in a row, every pass out of the back from Lucas, Glenda, Flannagan, and many from Gerrard, were intercepted like academy football, and it left Sterling and Moses very isolated wide, with Suarez a reminiscent of disgusted figure like Torres used to, while Jordan ran his socks off, but never got in any threatening positions.
Moses made a terrific run, and had a sure goal superbly stopped, which would have been 2-1, but aside from that, until Coutinho and Alberto came on, you could just predict a loss, not even a draw. I suppose I'll say, I'm glad we got this shocker out of our system now, so we can man up at home vs Norwich, and the following fixtures, because that won't do!
I'm absolutely disgusted after today. I honestly can't even say 1 single player had a good game, aside from Gerrard's free kick goal, and Jordan running for days.
Our fullback play/overlapping width, was absolutely non existent, shameful considering how good Glenda can be on her day. Passing by every single player, was despicable, turnover after turnover, and we probably show the worst "team defending" in the prem after our opening three 1-0 wins.. If it weren't for Skrtel making some last ditch / sliding deflections, me may have been crushed worse, and he had a #$%$ day / luck.
Suarez was so isolated, as Sterling and Moses were really held at bay, and Jordan should be playing deeper. Luis Alberto really needs to just get a start if Coutinho isn't fit, which he wasn't (pain injections to make bench), and on the road if you want to retain possession, pass and control, I can't see why he didn't give Allen another run out, with Jordan/Moses wide..
Lucas is becoming diabolical to me anymore.. Fouls, mistimed challenges, doesn't win aerials, no vision, and no pace once he's turned. If Aly Cissokho is so poor as an LB, then we may as well play Glen there, and have Flannagan or Kelly (is he alive?) play at right back. At least Glen can do a job, while we wait for January. Ultimately, we're still, with a deeper team, over reliant on Suarez/Coutinho and Gerrard.
I haven't got a clue as to why we didn't get involved in looking at Wanyama, or even Diame or Yacob. My only guess is that BR was truly confident Lucas game would really elevate, and Allen would have been fully fit by now.
To comment backwards, while I think Gerrard can give us another 3-4 years at a very high level, just perhaps not routinely / consistently as he'd have to be managed, or may not want to play, there definitely seems to be a plan in his replacement, as we continuously are linked with central mids, however, most of today's aren't really in his unique mold, more the Christian Eriksen type, or the Paulino type. Very creative with little defensive capabilites, or box to box with an emphasis on defense, with no happy medium. We may never see another Gerrard (or lampard / scholes for you peeping goons), where it's the old fashiond jack of all trades.
My curiosoity, once BR feels he's fully aligned his squad with additional depth, mostly out wide and up front, is what can Henderson really do in one position. I say it alot, but with the right training/mentoring (Lucas did), he could be quite a central player, especially considering his natural ability, size, pace and work rate.
For now, I just feel like BR has got to drop Lucas, even if he feels reluctant, and can just say it's for some rest, because we need to see Allen, and perhaps Allen / Henderson can really do a nice job deeper, and give Stevie freedom at the front of a triangle to link wit Coutinho, or distribute wide left and right, making us that more dangerous.
Lucas just does not possess much in his locker, and he seems to have lost his best attributes, which were tireless work rate, and some athleticism .. He' just so limited now. This of course is my view, but the proof is routinely seen in his poorly timed fouls and where they occur..
Maybe we can get Coady in there, or just see what happens in January..