Tottenham Hotspur Message Board
Time to separate the men from the boys, and let's see some of the players who've done a lot of talking (or shall I say complaining) step up, now that their chances will come. I'd expect to see Alberto, who I've been screaming for, and slowly been adding in minutes of late, getting a real run, and I think we could see something special with him/Coutinho/Suarez.. Aspas, will now get a chance again being fit, and having been yapping, before he finds himself on loan to Valencia.
As for midfield, statistics, and last week (most of the season, this and last), show when Jordan plays a central figure, he becomes an engine, a master of nothing, but outstanding at many things. Lucas having been dropped (FINALLY) the last 2 matches, has seen our best midfield performances of the season, Allen was a bulldog, and a passing machine in his stead. Lucas will come back in, but have 1 very simple role, and who knows, maybe he doesn't, and Jordan/Allen sit at the back of the triangle, and Alberto heads it up, with Coutinho and Sterling wide.
Kelly, looked fit and hungry, and I wouldn't be stunned to see him start at RB with Glenda shifting left, because while Flanny has been solid, he offers very little going forward, and Cissokho, is obviously just collecting a paycheck. S A S - Skrtel and Sakho, were very physical and commanding vs WHU, and while Spuds on paper or per paycheck, look fast and pretty, have shown nothing but dour, daft footy, BUT have a very physical side, and it's screaming Vertoghen, Paulino, Dawson etc., nicking something from Corners, which is why I'd leave S A S together in favor of Agger.
BUT, regardless of Gerrard, we have everything else with Coutinho / Suarez /Sterling's form, to push AVB's defensive mind to the limit. He will start 3 CDM's, so we could very well, outskill them, which isn't something I've thought in years for this fixture.. At least, it's how I think BR and AVB are planning, respectively..
Hey Loki, From anything I have seen, amongst the 800 players we're linked with, Diame, is mentioned as a "loan", which makes no sense. You could argue he's West Ham's best player.. A January purchase would be AWESOME, and who knows, but I keep seeing loan, and that can't really add up.
I think up until he eventually ends up on Spurs or Italy, we'll keep hearing of Damaio unfortunately. From what was suggested this past summer, we had our chance on a plate, the price was right, and they were sellers, but we didn't move.
The names I love, and keep seeing, both loan/purchase, in January are both Montoya, and my personal favorite Tello, who admitted to turning us down in the summer, but has recently said he's looking to leave. I fully agree that we need firepower up top, but I think it has to be an adaptable type, who will also start even when Sturridge is fit, so a Tello, or Jeremy Menez, who play as wide attacking strikers. Any other name along those lines, then another midfield presence. Jorginho has been super impressive now up in Serie A..
I wouldn't rule out Cabaye, Pastore, Cisse, and perhaps a Benteke situation developing..
I know you're not Moses biggest fan, I had been at Wigan, and what he did at Chelsea last year, was impressive numbers wise, esp with who Rafa had at his disposal, and he started well for us, but has dipped. BUT, you forgot Sterling.. He's put in two consecutive very good, competitive, and consistent performances, and I don't really see any way he's not the first name to flank Suarez on either side..
Unfortunately, I think we all know it will be a triangle, with Lucas / Allen deep, and Henderson going forward, BUT maybe BR does shock us, though I really can't see Alberto starting this game, which despite Spuds failures to date, is a massive match, and one that will have the intensity/pace of a derby. Same for Aspas, though I could see both getting good minutes, at least Alberto who merits them..
Only real major changes I'd venture to guess, could be something at fullback with Kelly / Glenda over Flanny, and then Sakho vs Agger.. Other than that, minus Gerrard, inclusion of Lucas, I don't see a lot changing at WHL.. But let's roll with what's working!!
I was absolutely terrified of this game, the last time we won there, Torres scored the winner and I decided to wear my long sleeve Torres that was collecting dust, and I stood, motionless, for one of the most brilliant, breathtaking and amazing performances I can ever remember!!
I'm over the moon and back again, like a kid on Christmas day, I just can't seeeeem to get ennnnough!!!!!
I'm curious as to where Mel (Rodgers is a mid table manager), Colin (Coutinho is a lightweight, Sturridge a flake, Allen a waste of money, Adam the business, Andy the best CF in England) are.. Where are you guys? Are you enjoying our tipi tappa, boring, sideways passing football?
5-00000 in our house of horrors, and a super, massive well well well done to Allen, Jordan, Flanny, Sterling, Coutinho, Sakho and all our #$%$ youth/buys and of course you know who.. Skrtel haha!
Let's carry on this form, dust off Cardiff, and keep Rockin and Rolling!!!!!!!!!!! Done with my rant, and actually going to use the bathroom finally..
Long way to go, but so proud to be an LFC fan today, more than ever!
Hey Colyn / Paddy,
You still can't wipe the smile off my face.. quite honestly, other than the 4-1 at OT, and the 5-0 v Madrid, albeit not quite the same level, though it was for me, I can't remember a better performance in a big game. Spuds was big, because if we'd lost, we'd be 5th!!!
Anyhow, on another sidenote, Alberto has quietly been getting in more, and got almost 25 mins yesterday in the 10 spot, and picked up 2 assists!! I think only 1 will register, but all the same, and our other S-a-S, Skrtel and Sakho looked as solid and assured as our CBs as long as I can remember..
With all the experience Flannagan, and Sterling are getting now, with Coutinho racking up quality performance, and now Allen showing his true value, we can only get better, especially come January and whatever we do.
For me, while our corners, and a few free kicks really suffered without Gerrard, it was a blessing in disguise because our midfield was fast, aggressive, dynamic, and when Gerrard comes back, he can take over for Lucas, who for me, just still wasn't at the races, and seems to be fading like an old player, sadly to say. He loves Liverpool, Liverpool loves him, but if not for a few lunging clearances, or the occasional sweep the ball out of bounds, he just really isn't up to it. Allen and Jordan made Sandro/Paulino look stupid.. And Gerrard can tackle, run, jump, and certainly pass a heck of a lot better than Lucas.
But, I don't want to be too critical, it was an absolute masterpiece, and the best under BR, who played all down as if it was a 1-0 scoreline.. Class!
Hey, I never really slated him too much, in fact, when we bought him, I was only a bit shocked/disappointed because I thought Sinclair was the best player at Swans and a perfect suit for us. BUT, I backed up on Allen saying, that I thought he was team GB's 2nd/3rd best player at the Olympics along with Sturridge and Bellamy.
We (us/media) get carried away with these "monster" types, because there are the likes of Yaya, who is a rare breed, and some others like him, but (not the same player) Mascherano was a midget, and completely wrecked the midfield, but offered literally nothing going forward. Again, not the same player, but it's easy to understand, when you're smaller like Allen, that you have to go in with leverage, and if you have a broken shoulder, as he apparently did all season, why he wouldn't be too confident or be able to throw his body in..
Hey Michael, welcome back (don't recognize the name ha)
I mean, with Glen(duh), he/she is either fantastic, or not, never anything completely consistent. When we got him from Pompey, he was a stunningly good talent, and that first year he scored goals and assists galore, which more than made up for avg. defending, but now you never know.
The irony of it all is, I, and presumably most, figured Lennon and Walker would tear down our left side vs Flanny/Coutinho, and they ended up looking foolish vs a 20 and 21 yo, while any chance created, for all our dominance, came against GlenDA, letting Chadli or whomever else, beat him to the byline and get in very dangerous crosses, all dealt with magnificently by Skrtel and Sakho (who by the way as the new SAS, is our best pairing). Glen also let Chadli waltz in for an absolutely free smashing header, that any striker or polished aerial player would have buried, and it would have been 1-1. He needs to up it a notch on both sides. If Kelly was/is 100% fit, I'd trade the occasional mazy run forward for his no nonsense defending.
As for Gerrard, when fully fit, he could be eased in, and then actually take over for Lucas, because to be honest, he can do anything Lucas, can or can't, in addition to his long range passing and set pieces. But I think we should be hardpressed to break up Jordan/Allen, and we all hoped it would look that way, with Coutinho/Alberto floating in front.
2-3 more players, maybe 2, one a serious wide/goal scoring threat like "Tello", and we can be frightening good. Coulda beat Spuds 8-0, and that's being kind..
I think you know my stance, and ironically, while I wasn't here on the boards these 5-6 years ago, when Lucas was absolutely tortured by everyone, and dire, I actually told friends to support the lad, as I saw things in him, that I see in Jordan now, such as good pace, work rate, effort and the desire.
Aside from the work rate, and desire, I just don't see these things in him anymore, and I don't even think it's his fault all together, but such is life. Medically speaking, from what I do know, and seeing it so often in the NFL and American sports, tearing the ACL, can be career ending, even if you come back, and it was evident that when he came back 2 years ago, he wasn't right, and I feared he'd hurt something else, and he tore his thigh muscle.
I think these have had dramatic effects on him with regards to his legs, footwork and movement. If he was still able to regain those, and still quite young, 25/26, then we still have a very good (not great) player. But the things you eluded to, cannot be changed, such as vision, passing range, offensive skill, and for me, back to the medical/surgical part, he cannot elevate to win many headers or aerial duels, that I even noticed Sterling and Allen competing for.
In short (my medium), he's luck to get in some timely clearances, or sliding challenges, with a good knowledge of where to be, but that's it. I do know Rafa was suggesting he'd be interested in bringing him to Napoli (along with our whole team), and 1-2 other Brazilian/Italian clubs, but nobody of lofty stature, and at this point, because his pace isn't heavy, just flat out slow, with no good movement and the other limitations, makes him a 4th choice, or important squad player. On second look he was okay vs Spuds, but had Redknapp still been there with all that talent, we know the setup would have been different, and he would have been a target of their paciest /creative player(s).. It's sad, but truth really..
The contract is for 5 years (give or take depending on the start-end date), and almost 220k per week, making him the highest paid player in LFC history and on par with the likes of Yaya and some others, so let it be known, FSG can bend when things make sense, and that doesn't mean Andy Carroll on 90K, or Joe Cole on 95k.
As far as release clause etc., the info I've come across, and I'm sure we'll never really know until the day comes, is suggested to be around 105M.. I can't put it in concrete writing, just some things I've come across..
Right now, while we're playing like #$%$ vs Cardiff, he's absolutely loving life, and his role as captain, so we haven't got that to worry about just yet, but if the day comes, let's see what Madrid, Madrid, and Madrid (did I mention Fail Madrid) are made of.. Can't really see PSG even rationalizing having Cavani, Suarez and Ibra..
Maybe Whinger will come in with a cheeky bid of 104,000,001 ?
- Reply to Loki Dec 21, 2013 18:54
For me, I've always been love hate with Sturridge, both in Red and even an outsider with Chelsea. If he could embrace playing the wide right attacking role, and not be so selfish, with the work rate and creativity of our 19 year old wizard, our front 3 could be even more explosive.
As for Gerrard, our overall shape and team movement has been so much faster, and that's because Allen is in, showing exactly what he's all about and can do, but I still think Gerrard could/should replace Lucas.. The guy offers nothing.
To slightly disagree, our corners have been a bit woeful since he's been out, and he was tied with Ozil for assists in the league, so it's hard to see him not coming in, BUT he's gonna have to wait another 6 weeks at least, and I wouldn't anticipate Sturridge jumping back in for even longer.. This 4-3-3 is balling !!
I'd be more interested to see who we could / might bring in, that can possibly walk into the side in a wide area, and possibly deep mid. IE (For me) Tello and Diame.. That might push Lucas and Sterling out
At times, is nothing short of woeful, particularly on set pieces, shown time after time, match after match. Our Spuds demolition could have easily been something different at 1-1 had Chadli been a better header of the ball, and today's NON marking of Mutch, was the stuff relegation dreams are made of. City, will play for free kicks through Silva/Nasri/Navas, even if they get iffy, and they'll slaughter us..
I watched the replay over and over, and I can't even see anyone in the picture trailing him for the header, and it looked like a training ground exercise, or something you'd see in an NBA game, for those who may watch basketball and see pick plays.. He just ran around the mess free, and bang.
Aside from Skrtel, who wasn't his most eloquent today, actually a little over aggressive, but always reliable and last man standing, now Sakho, and Jordan, I never see our players laying out full stop to put in a deflection or block, whereas, we regularly take 30+ shots a game, and no matter who we play, they deflect/block maybe half of them. The individuals I would single out, and getting most annoyed with are Glenda, who is just miserable as a defender right now, and Lucas, who's too slow and doesn't have good positional sense. No matter what the debate is on Gerrard, he's always back in the mess, heading or clearing balls away, and with Allen a regular, Sterling/Coutinho the choices, we're a bit shorter.
Going to City, and I'm hoping this was BR's train of thought when removing Flanny, who was superb again, we'll see Kelly at RB, and Glenda shifted to left for that one. We lose nothing down the left, actually gain more, and Kelly offers height, physicality and good positional sense. If he's fit, that's our one change IMO, unless BR does some 3 CB nonsense, or something really out there like Agger in at CDM.
We have to stop conceding these fouls, and avoid them, and when we do, we have to FOCUS. It's purely mental. If we mark, Migs will produce in the sticks!
The set pieces and overall team defending, is driving me crazy. What's even more annoying, aside from lack of clean sheets, which is a pride thing, is that we're right up there with the rest in goals conceded, but not nearly as many come from open play, which just shows a lack of positional sense, discipline, and "want to"
I saw so many great balls (in a daft game) tonight in Chelski v Ars.enal, from both sides, and everyone of them was dealt with superbly, and immediately cleared from the box.
Like I said, a few great results could have gone bad early, and if City get one on us early, from set play, which is very real with their height, we will be in for a bad, bad day.
As far as the defensive setup, I would not change a thing at CB, SAS2, seem to be our best pairing, and the best suited for every style, particularly this one. As for fullbacks, Flanny has been great, both forward and defensively, but the fact City could throw Navas/Nasri/Silva at him, does scare me, though I had the same fear of Lennon/Walker.
Maybe it's the same 4-3-3 personnel again, but I might be inclined to think Kelly at RB and Glenda at LB, may be the best way to go. I wish there was a solution to Lucas, like Agger coming in at CDM, but that's probably a dream..
First off... City 6 Arsenal 3, City 4 United 1, City 6 Spuds 0, City 3 Everton 1, City 4 Newcastle 0, (just recently, City 4 BAYERN 2), City 2 Liverpool 1... I hate losing, especially feeling hard done like that, but I hold my head high knowing we went there for 3, and played like we deserved 3..
The average age of our lineup yesterday vs Champions elect, was 24 years old per player vs. City's average of like 24M per player, and we slugged it out like a 12 round title fight.
So, my problem wasn't the result (bad decisions aside), effort, Mignolets' error, or Kompany beating Skrtel for a goal, despite shirt tugging. My problem wasn't even with Lucas, who I've been all over lately, because he played fairly well.. WHERE THE HELL IS GLENDA JOHNSON?? Our 17M right back, and England #1 (no more due to Walker) wasn't at the stadium yesterday, and seems to appear less & less each week.
The highlight of his day, was a terrible yellow, for clipping the heels of a City player on what was sure to be an odd man rush, with him too lazy and careless to have tracked back. He put in 1 dangerous cross all day.
If it were up to me, Kelly or Flannagan at 60% would take his spot, and Cissokho retain left... He's a passenger on the bus.. Any other player noted above, who made a mistake, more than made up and carried their weight..
I'm pretty sure that couldn't have been the case because Cissokho was hanging out in the final 3rd all day long, and there were countless times where City split us apart on the counter, only to be saved by last ditch defending by Skrtel or whomever else, everyone but Glen. Even if he was told that, he didn't defend either, and he turned the ball over like it was his job. For a guy as truly talented as he is, he is serving as a complete utter waste of space right now, especially when you see how Flannagan has done as a left back, or even Jordan Henderson as make shift RB earlier..
I get what you're saying about the away wins, but, that's been an issue for us for nearly 5 years now, and ironically, Chelsea seems to be the only ground we've won at. However, I really do have to say, that everyone was fearful of horrible result at Spurs 3 weeks ago, and we absolutely ran them ragged off the pitch, and could have done 8-0..
After tomorrow, we will have played 7 out of the top 8 teams, away from home, and all of the top teams, including us, are doing 2 things consistently more than any year in recent memory.. Winning home games, and sweeping away the lower side of the table without mercy. We, Everton and Arsenal all have 1 loss at home, City and Chelsea have 0, then Spurs/Utd/Newcastle have dropped more. Of the top 5, that's 3 home losses from 40 home fixtures.. We will now face 7/8 at our joint in the new year... Someone's going to be on the wrong end of a right beating at Anfield..
There's no end gain in losing admirably, but we put City on the edge for 90", absolutely wrecked Spurs, and I expect a similar effort / performance at the Bridge. Back to the topic, if Glenda doesn't start putting in 1/4 the effort of 19 y/o Sterling, I hope we bring in Montoya and get shot of him..
I think it shows, much like some of the things you said, that we are also, as good as the very best based on style, substance and hard work, only short of quality in depth. We are absolutely a top 4 team, and I'm comfortable saying, if the squad grows with quality, every bit as good as 2,3,4 and pushing whoever is top.
We need 2 fullbacks, or 1 at the very least, because we seem to have a bunch who can't play either side, so let's hope all that noise over Montoya from Barca is leading to a January move. Next, imo, more than anything, 2 attacking forces, 1 wide and one through the middle. The noise is getting louder and louder, that we may well be signing Salah of FC Basel for a modest fee, and who seems to be a massive upgrade to anyone we've got, with experiences at the highest levels, and also Ivan Rakitic of Sevilla, who would be similar to Mkhitarayan that Rodgers desired.
I noticed another problem today, Coutinho tries to do too much and more, and sometimes gets nothing done. I could see it today more than ever because he was up against his mates, Oscar, Luiz, Willian, and is desparate to get in the Brazil squad, but he just tries to leave too much to do. He catches the ire of Suarez and Sterling more and more each week, with wayward shots, or over dribbling.
I think the addition of Salah or Rakitic, or both, would give us what we want in the middle by default, in Jordan. He's been ever impressive roaming forward, but at the same time, is perfectly capable of being a big, athletic, driving force in a deeper spot. We're all admirers of Diame, and he often lines up behind the striker for WHU, and while he's better (older too), I see similarities and more in Jordan. That said, I'd have Diame too. If we could add Montoya, Salah (or Tello), Rakitic, Diame, I'd be delighted.
Word, or rumor has it over here in some readings, that Rodgers could have a handsome amount, for the "right" players, noted above, along with Menez/Jorginho/Pastore/Cabeye etc etc..
We're on the verge of bringing in one of my dream signings, Cristian Tello on a 6 month loan from Barca.. It's being splattered all over the news in Spain already, and making it's way to England. Unless another club (Valencia) steps in, it seems all but done, and I'll be thrilled to death. Ideally, if it happens and he performs the way I would envision, we could try to make it permanent in the summer with Reina and/or Agger (whose strongly suggested) as parts of the deal.
Aside from what we all know, and said about the players above, I feel equally as strong about needing more in attack, hence, Tello and then another player like Salah or someone else. Our best form of defense in our wins, has been attack, especially at home, and in these past two games, we simply couldn't generate enough quality chances with all eyes on Suarez and Sterling the main threats, and little room for Coutinho to operate.
We really really deserved at least 1 point, if not all 3 at City, and could have crafted a few more chances for all our possession at the Bridge and nicked a point, but if you look at both games, all other topics aside, no Suarez, not many chances, no goals.
For as bad as our LB/RB and Lucas were, 2 goals would see us in 2nd place, or 3rd at worst, and we could have really set a marker and edge up in 1st..
This window, may be the most vital in as long as I know.. (Until Suarez part 2 this summer)
I usually like this, and find it easier posting, in the summer, so I apologize to you guys and anyone else reading if I'm off, but I'm going off the typical dirt digging that I do, reading/conversing in Spanish, and then some things I just happen to read on my side of the pond.
Before getting into names, without any firm source, I am under an impression (this makes City / Chelsea laugh of course) BR has somewhere around 40M to spend, IF he can get the players he wants.
Topping the list, in no order, Ivan Rakitic (the most costly), Mohammed Salah, Martin Montoya, Jorginho, Cristian Tello, Juan Manuel Iturrbe (a buy for now, no move until Summer), and then 150 names w/ a dart..
Supposedly, Mohammed Salah, seems to be the very first one on his way in and to be announced, if the sources are right, as they're saying as soon as Thursday, perhaps no later than Monday after the Hull match. I doubt he'd be announced Thurs if we play that day..
Just my hunch, Salah and Tello, which would be spectacular additions up front/out wide, and like you say Loki, actually fit the mould and ethos Rodgers has, not just names and talent to fit into pegs.
Fingers crossed fellas!!
Figured I'd might as well start it's own thread, especially so I can converse with myself at this hour, and also correct myself, after my last comments in the previous post.
In regards to Tello, I'm going to play antagonist to my own favorite target, despite reading alot suggesting possible good news. In quotes from Spain: "Despite interest from Liverpool and Valencia, Barcelona don't want to let Tello leave on loan. He'll complete the season at Barcelona."
Tello is on the bench tonight for Barcelona friendly match in Indonesia, China or something. Also, of more negative news, per a Barcelona source, because of recent rises in playing time, Martin Montoya (rb/lb) has asked to re-open contract extension talks. (Alba & Alves now healthy, so maybe a loan exists)
Those come from a respected Barcelona / Spanish source, so, for now, I'm just rolling with the Mohammed Salah story only, waiting to see that done, hoping we can pull off Tello, which seems to he his decision.
Watch this space, and the tabloids (blah) .. tick tock tick tock..
As the merry wheel goes round and round, it seems like I'm officially, and embarrasingly, a big fat, 0-2.. Supposedly we're very, very interested in Salah, and his fee is suggested around 7M, but for some logical (no sarcasm intended), it seems we may wait until the summer. Makes sense, with him having scored in both victories over Chelsea in the UCL this campaign, and many clubs interested. Maybe we can pay 17M, when his contract is only down to 2 years in August.. Scratching my head..
As for Tello, Spain says he's coming, everyone else, going nowhere.. For me, he is the IDEAL signing, especially on a loan. He's so talented, and experienced at 22.
I should realize by now, not only being a Liverpool fan, I just don't have the patience for this rubbish. Granted Rodgers said with a straight face last year the same thing, nothing is imminent, and Coutinho/Sturridge came right in, but I really wish, we could just be a little more encouraging and active. Too slow..
It's about the best and right players, BUT, we do need players, and I look forward to the window, where I don't feel such a strong need to say that. Surely, the slower we act, the faster Suarez will be looking to July!