Barnsley Message Board
There are loads of people I don't like, but it doesn't mean that those people aren't any good at what they do.
I don't 'like' Rooney, but I think he's a good footballer. Daffy - I don't like that style of striker - but Daffy is very good at that style.
So my opinion of AVB and his style is neither here nor there on whether he could have got Spurs to 'achieve'. He may have personally bored me to death with his 'style', but I bet if we had got CL and done well by playing that 'style' , other supporters would have been happy. People like Mourinho - not sure about his 'style' either and I'm not overly keen on the way the man comes across - but I wouldn't dispute that he achieves by what and how he does what he does..
No contradiction - just divorcing my dislikes/likes from judging a person on what they've done/are capable of doing.
I say we're taking a step back because of 2 things:
1) I don't think I've ever seen a manager come in and not then change the squad. So we have spent £100m, and that spend may not suit whoever comes in. We won't get another Bale - so having £100m was like a Christmas present that we'll never have again. To then sack the manager before seeing what those players could do seems a bit premature.
2) Because of our track record. Name the 'successful' managers we've had in the 10 (?is it more or less?) that Levy has appointed. So using STAR - our track record doesn't actually fill me with confidence over the next manager. True, the next manager may lead us to the heights, but that hasn't been the case so far.
I posted this before, but Yahoo has a smart editor and decided not to publish it.
Although I dislike AVB and his 'style', he still has the best win percentage of virtually all the managers we've had. And irrespective of the two big losses, he has still got us to a reasonable points total - and achieved the highest in the club's history in the previous season. Could he have turned the 2nd half of the season and actually achieved 4th? Not sure, but giving any manager a season and a bit, IMO just isn't enough to see what they can do. Levy made the gamble when he sacked 'arry and appointed AVB - it does not say much for his and the board's decision making to have had so many managers anyway - and to then not stand by the latest decision that he made. He was under no pressure to sack 'arry.
Personally, I don't think AVB would have turned it around - but my crystal ball is no clearer than anyone else's - and to me the man should have at least been given the chance.
I was no great believer in him, but as it stands we could have achived 30+ points by mid-way and may, just may have got to 4th. Now, we'll have the new manager restructuring - and what then of £100m spent in the summer?
And if the rumours of Andy Capp or Maddonna or ... are true, I'm not sure where it will leave us anyway.
But should AVB bear all the blame? Surely, given the managers we've gone through in the past few years, questions have got to be asked of the board - as whether AVB was good bad or indifferent, the board have appointed (and sacked) a fair few mediocre managers.
If Baldninni then did make the purchases in the summer (with Levy) - then unless AVB specifically requested those players, surely the wisdom of the purchases also has to be questioned?
Bit of a balls up though - as just when I thought we were looking like a top 4 'consistent' team, we'll be taking another step back.
To a degree Fab - but a change in fortune for a Bale, Wilshire, Townsend can suddenly make all the difference - without wholesale changes. AVB was to sell Daws (maybe he should!) and up until the weekend we had a tight defence (on paper) - but is the defence as good as the stats imply (Walker - not sure, Vert at LB - not sure, Daws/Kaboul - not sure, Chicachita - unproven).
But you're right in that time changes everything - a couple of good wins, with a few goals from the strikers (whoever) and we may start to see the AVB 'style' (whatever that is) prove itself.
Still not convinced. The players who left either were on the edge of the squad anyway (Jenas, Bentley - T'Hudd had been out for a while, and Livermore hadn't really broken in) - Bale was the main loss. T'hudd and Livermore left squad holes, but didn't HAVE to be sold - ditto for moving on BAE.
IMHO it's a bit pointless selling on a midfield simply to have to replace it - if that is what you're saying. And as we've seen, it then makes it harder for the manager to #$%$ the new players - as HOW do they get the pitch time required to bed them in? So didn't AVB then create the problem (unless he's not responsible for buying and selling - and Baldnini is). Changing one or two at a time to fix a perceived problem seems a more sensible approach IMHO.
And isn't it a bit odd that the manager has played more of the players he already had than the new boys - Chadl valley? Capoue (ok was injured), Lamentable, Chicachita - the only one with good pitch time is Little paul - oh and a striker who plays on the shoulder like Daffy (and requires service that we're not providing). So wouldn't #$%$ing what he had and filling weak spots be the way?
We still have gaps at FB, striker (maybe not if Ade will now get game time) and maybe no 10.
Daws - c'mon, if you're talking about the Negredo? goal - I'm not sure any defender would have stopped that turn. And the 'too tight', 'not tight enough' is one of those commentary 'funnies' isn't it? As the pundits love to say, when pointing out a perceived 'error', that 'he was too tight/not tight enough there' (delete as appropriate) - so what is the 'right' amount of tightness - obviously the amount required to stop the 'error'. But that level of tightness may then be tighter or looser than an effective piece of defending - so its a very woolly/bland subjective comment isn't it?
Oh well. Not even half way through the season - by the end of the season all the new boys are regulars and we're banging in goals for fun and AVB will be proven
Personally, I think this is one of the reasons 'arry went. I'm not sure that the buys were all to do with AVB - BUT, AVB does not come across to me (obviously without any knowledge of his personality other than what appears on screen) as the sort to stand up to a policy he didn't agree with.
Which is right - 'arry's style of buying to fix a problem - although that did have an effect of then ageing the squad - or a blanket buy of 'available' 'talent'? I'm not sure.
All I see is that the purchasing policy this time created more problems than it fixed - and that is frustrating as there won't be many times in Spurs history where we get a windfall of £100m.
Oh well, they'll (AVB and the team) probably now go and prove me totally wrong by scoring a score against Tromso and then hitting Utd for six.
I'm not so sure the blame is the players. If you look at the 'stats' on the Citeh game, the stats show roughly what we've been doing all season - apart from leaking goals.
We have possession and we have 'attempts' but we (IMHO) don't create chances.
The defensive stat also then (IMHO) belies what has been happening, as I think that other teams seem to find it relatively easy to create chances against us - whether they've taken them in the past is another thing. But Citeh did. They have strikers who can - and createive players who can (good job Silva wasn't playing).
I saw a write up saying that Daws got caught out of position too much - I would agree, but that seemed to be driven by our two FBs pushing on and leaving huge gaps every time Citeh came forward.
So I'm not sure the players are to blame, when the wrtting has been on the wall. I'm not sure that AVB is either - as I can't believe any right minded manager would have bough a Daffy playalike in Soldado - when the whole ethos of AVB seems to have the midfield scoring rather than providing.
And I don't see that buying 5 midfielders solved any problem that we had. We now seem to have a bigger issue deciding who to play. So again, I'm not sure that was AVB. BUT AVB is the manager and if he had doubts as to the players coming in, then he should have been shouting at the top of his lungs.
So, we still seem light at FB, striker etc after having spent £100m. So surely that is not the players fault?
I still think though that AVB needs at least til the end of the season, but I doubt his initial attack on the fans and now his attack on the players is doing his credibility any good at all.
And I still don't feel confident about playing the top 4 teams - I'm not sure I even fancy the game against Southampton.
- Reply to Jlock Nov 15, 2013 08:52
But isn't that the reason that our strikers for the past couple of seasons have had a poor return? The providers no longer see it as their prime role to provide. Maybe again, AVB is happy with that and wants to then spread the goals across the front 4. Makes it hard then to blame Daffy or Soldado or Ade or Kane or whoever is then playing up front for not scoring though.
...back to counterfeit - when I was kid, I am almost certain you could buy club badges and append then to 'stuff'. I had a while long sleeved shirt with such a badge stitched on. I thought I looked the bees knees - especially with my Puma Tottenham boots. Couldn't play football for toffee though. Did make our school 3rd XI once and played Ardingly College.
Memories eh? I'm sure as I get older I make more of them up....
Not sure that it's that different from last season - just that Bale was more accurate when shooting so masked the lack of provision to the 'strikers' by scoring himself. The assists have dropped from the midfielders, and I think AVB sees midfield as the main provision of goals. Not a bad idea - spread the goals - but I'm not sure where that leaves strikers like Soldado/Daffy. I saw an article recently expressing just this - that for this to work, a different type of striker is required who can create their own chances more and work back into midfield.
Does that work though without CL football? Isn't that the problem with the EPL - it is two leagues in 1. Even if you drop out of the CL early it's worth what, £20M - that's a huge figure as a difference in earning between two clubs. A top quality player a season. CL funds CL football. Utd have had it for years, Woolwich, Chavs even Pool. Citeh are now becoming regulars. That, in way of 'growing the club' needs to be us as well.
So, if Levy/AVB/Baldini are planning for the future, I would still (personally) have focused on the CL slots this season - then bought to consolidate that slot next. Not buy umpteem midfielders that MAY help us also win the Leaugue cup, Europa or FA. As again to me we're already/still light at LB, CF and even with the purchases MAY be light at 10 and LM. But if AVB keeps picking up points with poorish 'style' performances, we'll hopefully get there.
Isn't that one of the problems though? Wholesale changes become a problem rather than a solution. I don't dispute that each of the players bought may turn into a Spurs legend.
This season, to me, was the ideal chance to make the top 4 a permanent position. Changes in managers at Chelsea, Utd and Citeh - your bunch still doubting in Wenger (or were pre-season!) - Pool still not looking like challengers - and Suarez is just a liability waiting to happen.
So instead of just strengthening where we needed it (and I would have been happy for AVB to decide that) - we seem to buy 5 midfielders (when we'd already bought Dembele, Dempsey, Holtby, Glyphi already) - and still then be talking about winning every piece of silverware possible. IMHO, the league THIS season should have been the obvious priority - as another season when the top clubs all change manager isn't likely to occur too often.
But that also then gets away from the style of AVB - I just think I will have to get used to a more cautious approach - as I don't think AVB is an 'audere' character.
Strange how we all feel different things. For me, the 'fear' of the big teams stopped roughly with BMJ, and then through 'arry, but it has come back with AVB. And it's not just the 'big' teams. I feel at times it's like waiting for a bubble to burst - I just haven't seen performances that to me warrant the position we're in - but having said that I haven't been totally convinced by the performances of the other 'big clubs' either - although Woolwich have been putting in some performances that worry me.
Call me a cynic, but the '...the fans made all the difference....' comment seemed more like a man either told that the fans are the ones who pay his wages or a man trying to deflect attention away from a £99billion team only winning on penalties (and the odd one at that) against a team who cost just south of two bob.
And if it takes a crowd of 36,000 to make that difference, I hate to think what is required for us ever to beat a team by more than two at home.
...about the bunch here - Sfer would have it that I drove them away - but I would simply guess that the faffing around with the links being lost off the Yahoo page, the use more of social networking sites to abuse people etc have had their impact. Are 'forums' a dying method of chatting - a bit like landlines...? Seems the one's I belong too are dwindling - hang on, Sfer may have a point.....
I'm not sure that the fans are/were anything but behind HIM (in general), but fans sing when (what) they want, when they want. They tend to try to lift the team when they're down and sing from 'joy' when winning. The problem with Spurs is that we're doing 'well' in way of points and places - so there's no singing required to lift the team to win per se - and the football just isn't (IMHO) of a style to get them singing from joy - a no man's land. So it's a two way street - if AVB wants the fans to sing, then the style has to give them something to sing about. Be amusing to hear what songs are sung tonight.
Irrespective of what some pundits think, football as a spectator sport IS about entertainment - the players are paid like film stars. It's only the clubs who make money out of the punters who want to keep the '....its not about entertainment....its about loyalty....its in the blood....' bit alive - at it's in their interest. If George Clooney turned out boring performance after boring performance, would theatres still be packed with people watching and believing the Studio line of '.....its not about entertainment....its about loyalty... George is an icon...he's in your blood....'. Football for years has relied upon the Emperors new clothes stopping the fans from seeing that what they're presented with 50% of the time is absolute dross.
The last paragraph was tongue in cheek - but I take my lead from Danny Blanchflower:
"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It’s nothing of the kind. The game is about glory. It is about doing things in style, with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom.”
...and remind me again what our motto is: Audere est Facere? - which if my schoolboy latin doesn't fail me means Audi's are made...
Sell him to Barcelona for E120m (just to pee of Ronald McD and Bale) and then spend the money on buying another 5 midfielders, whilst selling Soldado, Ade, Daffy , Walker and Naughton. We'll then extend Daws contract another 12 years and make him club captain for life.