Tottenham Hotspur Message Board
Jlock...I must say that I'm not trying to convince anybody with my comments, as I don't know whats right or not, its just the way I think the reasoning for the changes were made. As I say, I don't think it was a case of just improving the then team, but a fundamental change to the squad and style of the club as a whole. It doesn't mean I agree it was right, but an opinion as to why the club bought so many players at once rather than concentrate on specific areas. I think the pressure was on the club to spend the Bale money, so should it have been spent on 1 or 2 top quality players ( within our wage structure of course ) when there was so many weak areas of the squad that needed sorting out ( and still does )? I know what I would have liked to of seen, but I repeat, was it strengthening or changing the team in mind?
In my comments about Daws, you will see I acknowledged he was done by a piece of skill by Negredo. Your right about the commentaries when the question is asked " is he to tight or should he stand off ". but surely a player with Daws experience should know when and which players he should be tight against or give a yard too. When he gets it wong, that qualifies as a mistake to me, as he knows as well as we do, that he can not afford to get turned with his lack of pace. By your comments, I take it you feel it was perhaps AVBs fault rather than the players for the overall result, so my question to you is where do you place Lloris part in the defeat in particular, compared to your misgivings to the system and pace of the game we play at?, because I thought, until Lloris made the same error for the second goal, we were playing quite well and taking the game to city. One other point on players bought, how many could invisage the impact Townsend has made. so that could explain why Lamela and Chadli were bought but now seem unneeded when the money could have been put elsewhere....Hindsight eh?
The reason I say the players were to blame for the city defeat is because Lloris gifted them the first two goals through his mistakes. Dawson, ( I'm not sure if it was the 3rd or 4th ) because he got too tight to the player, and then got out skilled for another goal, ( fair enough ). The point being 4 goals by player errors rather than any formation. I take the point that we have probably gotten away with some results defensively and getting away with 1 nil wins. The point we don't create chances seems abit of a confusing statement when you consider Krul actually made 14 saves, that's saves, from about 30+ attempts, and Marshal at Cardiff made 11 saves which to me shows that chances are being created. Whether the chances are taken is a different matter. I understand we want to see the fast flowing football that we have seen over the years, but I wonder, IF we had played the same way as we are at the moment, but had taken some chances and scored 3 or 4 goals in games, would we still be saying we're playing boring football? do goals decide if we play well, or is it the overall performance that dictates? Getting 5 midfielders in I can understand, as the ones we exchanged for were not of the quality to take us forward, i.e Jenus Bentley, an ageing Parker, a pedestrian Huddlestone and an average run of the mill player in Livermore, but off course there were more obvious areas that needed improving but the then midfield would not have carried us forward and I think Levy sees this as the make or break season for us to gatecrash the top four while the Bale money was available. It wasn't a case of strengthening the team, but changing the whole structure of the team. I think the midfield mistake was that we got similar types instead of getting at least one playmaking maestro who could pass the ball with vision and dictate the pace of the game like Modric did.
Part Two....So to the question, is AVB to blame?. If he sends the team out with the instuctions to keep possession by passing sideways and backwards with the thought being, if we have the ball, they cant score, then yes, he has to take the blame. If he tells the full backs to bomb forward as soon as we get the ball, without telling one of the midfielders to stay back as cover, then yes he's to blame for when we are caught short at the back when a move breaks down, especially as we play a high backline. If it's the players taking it on themselves to play it off the cuff and leaving themselves wide open, then again, he is to blame because he should blast the team for not playing as he wants them to. All managers stand or fall with the players they buy in. Some can be very good and adapt very quickly, while others need a lot off time. Some can be very good, but unable to adjust physically to the the pace and strength off the PL, so again the manager must take the blame as he should do his homework and make sure they have the mentality and desire to adapt to a different culture and style. The problem for us fans is, that we don't know what is being said and done by the manager and his coaching staff and we should bear in mind that he is still very young and relatively inexperienced and needs to earn the respect of his players, and if he cant, then he must take the blame for not being strong enough. This is all IMO of course, and theres many other opinions that I could give as I'm sure all other fans could, but it seems there are more questions than answers.
If we take the 6nil result first, then you have to blame the players. A manager will send his team out with a system of play that they would of trained and been prepared for and supposedly all the players knowing their role. How do you legislate for the keeper gifting 2 goals with the first straight from kick off? Does the manager tell the team from kick off, play it backwards and get it to the keeper? I doubt it. Does he tell the midfielders not to try passing the ball more than 3 metres? again I doubt it. Does he tell Walker to get forward and stand about around the oppositions penalty area when he hasnt got the ball instead of getting back in defense? I wouldn't have thought so. The system should work, as our possession stats and attempts on target would suggest in most games, so is it a fact that the players we have are just not good enough as a team? Individually, I would say we have some good players, but not the right mix to make a good team. I cant see one player who can spray the ball about from midfield to wide positions to switch play quickly or a pass over a defense to get behind them. Instead, all we see, are short passes through the middle which in turn causes congestion and slow build up which allows the other team to get back and organised. Some call for a 442 formation, but IMO opinion we don't have the right sort of strikers to play it. You need a Suarez or Rooney type who can drop off and control the ball and have the skill and flair to work their way in too the box and link up with the other striker and have a teamwork mentality, and we don't have that. We ask, why do our wingers keep cutting inside? well the answer is obvious to me, we don't have an Andy Carrol type forward so what is the point off putting in crosses for short players like Defoe or Soldado?.
- Reply to Jlock Nov 15, 2013 08:52
I think seeing as FleetSpurs are a tribute club to Spurs, we are being a bit OTT on this. If I stuck a BMW badge on a Ford, do you think people would be fooled?
Well, at least we were persistant, and got rewarded at the end, but in a game like that, we could just as well of lost it. When the defense has so little to do, it requires a bit of common sense, so im not sure what sort of game Daws thought he was playing in, but at times he was at best, reckless, and Hugo, well I don't think he knew the game had started with his first half display. I still think Siggy is a weak link. While dangerous in and around area, he seems to fade from games, and his ball retension is not very good, and lack off pace obvious. I like Dembele, but again I wonder about his stamina. Very good in first halves, then seems to me he fades from game. All in all, I was happy with our play going forward and thought there was good link up all round.
Jlock, I'm not sure your being a tad impatient here. It seems to me that now we have Eriksen threading passes behind the defenders that Soldado should soon start scoring regular. He hit the post with one clever backheel and should of scored with a header. I think Lamela is expected to score a few when he settles, and Paulinho think will reach double figures as the season goes on. At the moment, the season has been stop start, with the internationals, so the players haven't really had much time on the training ground, and it'll probably be November, December before we start to see the understanding develop to a consistant level.
The other point about your " 5 midfielders ". I know they are classed as midfielders, but I count only Paulinho, Capoue as MF and Chadli, Lamela as wingers/widemen and Eriksen as the playmaking no 10. As things stand when all are fit, your got ...Paulinho, Capoue, Sandro, Dembele and Eriksen as any 3 from 5 to start, with 2 as cover, and out wide we have got Chadli, townsend, Lennon, Lamela so any 2 with 2 cover. As with most teams nowadays, we play with a lone striker, so obviously Soldado has been bought as the main man, and Daffy will have to be content with being back-up, and playing in the cup games. As far as Siggy and Holtby are concerned, if the new signings live up to expectations, then they will just be squad members and cup players. I would think, when all available, the starting eleven would be
Hummm, I don't see it as a "scattergun" approach, as every signing makes sense to me. We got rid of Parker, Hudds Livermore, so Paulinho and Capoue makes sense and Chadli and Lamela gives us strength in the wide positions, as when Lennon didn't play last season we were unbalanced because we had no natural wide men, apart from Bale who we know was playing as our main goalscorer. Caulker could be considered a strange sell, but I think that was more to do with AVB not being able to guarantee him much first team football this season, and with the world cup in mind, I think it was a mutual agreement rather than wanting to sell or wanting to leave. £9m at this stage was a good price, although if he realises his potential then he will be worth a lot more. If Chiriches turns out to be as good as his put together youtube vids, then I think it could be bye bye Daws. Unfortunately for Daws, the 100% commitment and heart is not enough if you haven't got a bit of quality to go with it. Of last seasons buys, I think only Vertonghen and Dembele were serious buys with Holtby ( who should of only just been joining us ) one for the future. Ade was pretty much a done deal before AVB ( worst luck ). The rest were just stop gaps IMO. So overall we now have good competition for all places except the full backs and another striker wouldn't of gone amiss. Now its down to how they all adapt to the PL because if they don't, then its adious AVB im afraid.
With Ade, Ithink its a case of doing what he does, and that's sit on his fat contract rather than go and play. I don't think siggy is good enough, as he is to slow. when he turns someone, he hasn't got the pace to get away from them and loses the ball. I can also see Eriksen taking Dembeles starting place.
Not worth kicking up a furore over the loss to them because it was expected as the players need time to gel. Hopefully Eriksen is the missing link and will be the spark to Soldado.
I didn't agree with 'Arry when he said that as I think the strength of the bench shows who's strong. We had no-one who could come on and change a game, but now it looks like we have. Im not sure how Ozil really improves Arsenal ( even though he obviously is a quality player ) but wont change the way you play, whereas Erikssen, who is a similar type player will change our play, and hopefully be the spark for Soldado. In all honesty, I can only see us both fighting with Liverpool for the 4th spot because our new players are going to need time to adapt.
"Lay awake and dream" Sounds like a contradiction there FAB. I see you don't dispute the forth place comment, so I guess it's true, but if we do dream, I can asure you it's of WINNING not 4th.