Tottenham Hotspur Message Board
I see Spurs are 'doing' Fleet for using a Cockerel as the main part of their logo. I suppose that is semi understandable in a way, but it does seem a bit like a speed camera to me. Target the easy target. I wonder how many swaet shops are in operation in Asia where actual 'real' counterfeit products are being created (I won't say to deceive as from what I've seen of such counterfeits - Live Stress jeans for instance - they are more a tourist 'must have' - like a Spanish donkey). So is it sensible to go after a local club just to prove a point - and is '... If we do not take action to stop Fleet Spurs using our cockerel logo, it can undermine our ability to stop other unauthorised people who use our logo for commercial purposes, such as counterfeiters. ..." this really the case? Any court cases pending in Asia? - or are we too busy trying to create Asian support to risk taking a manufacturer there to court? Cynical? Moi?
Townsend. I like wingers. I like that style of play where a team stretches the opponent - opening gaps, scaring FBs - getting the ball into dangerous areas in the box. Acting as providers - as well as scoring the odd one or two. But I read from an article on Andros that he thinks scoring (and providing) more will make him indispensable. Only if that means he is playing 'well'. Just being a scorer or a provider isn't the be all and end all IMHO. Knowing what to do and when to do it to me identifies the good players from the average. Knowing what to do, when to do it, and having the ability to achieve it 90% of the time, separates the good from the great players. I think the legacy of Bale has a lot to do with this and maybe, just maybe the way AVB wants us to play. Just because we're lacking goals at the moment, cutting inside and having a dozen shots a game just isn't being a 'good' let alone great player. Bale was going the same way. I think I recall that he was having the most attempts in virtually every game - ....contd
Well if anybody wanted an example of what I was saying, then last night was it. Left footed Lamala on the right wing cutting in every single time. Walker going past him but not getting one single cross in. And even if he did there was lonely little Defoe with at least 4 big defenders around him. Even the commentators were talking about it. It was even worse on the left with right footed Naughton and Sigurdson not getting to the by line once. We were squashed into the middle, with all the relevant opposition markers, like pigs in a pen. They were a poor side and we made them look as good as us. Something has to change but unfortunately I am not sure the super arrogant AVB will even contemplate that he might be wrong about his team selection and tactics. Dembele was a waste of space giving the ball away more than any other players on the park. Erikson was not much better. But is that their fault? They got the ball looked up to try and find a forward pass only to see little Defoe surrounded by defenders so they had no choice but to hit a short sideways/backwards pass OR give it to a winger only to find them running back inside straight at them. At one point 3 of our players bumped into each other!! Shocking!
Not sure that it's that different from last season - just that Bale was more accurate when shooting so masked the lack of provision to the 'strikers' by scoring himself. The assists have dropped from the midfielders, and I think AVB sees midfield as the main provision of goals. Not a bad idea - spread the goals - but I'm not sure where that leaves strikers like Soldado/Daffy. I saw an article recently expressing just this - that for this to work, a different type of striker is required who can create their own chances more and work back into midfield.
Soldado looks fed up and who can blame him. We are currently playing with two wingers - no problem with that per se, but we have a right footed winger playing on the left and a left footed winger playing on the right. This is ok for the odd occasion that they cut inside (as Townsend does regularly) and has a shot (Lennon does this quite rarely) but when the full back shows them down the line there is no end result i.e. a cross because they don't feel comfortable kicking the ball with the wrong foot, or, if they do attempt it, it is not usually a quality cross anyway. This results in them cutting back and playing a short pass back or inside.
The cycle then begins again with us trying to force a move through the middle in a congested area full of midfielders and centre backs. One of our great successes last year was our ability to break with speed, get a cross in and score. Now, we are not breaking as quickly with wingers who are trying almost every time to come inside and shoot - a skill which, unlike Bale, they are struggling with.
AVB is sticking with the lone striker which means we usually only have one striker in the box at any one time. If the system is right and working, this is fine but with the wingers on the wrong wings no crosses are coming in and no chances created. This cannot go on forever. Our lack of chances and consequent lack of goals will cost us time and time again.
AVB has to decide what he wants - two wrong sided wingers, a low chance created record and a fingers crossed high conversion rate and one frustrated striker OR one winger swapping sides, two wingers playing on their stronger foot, two strikers in the box with one midfielder being sacrificed.
One thing is shining out loud and clear - to me anyway - the current formation and system is not working.
Does that work though without CL football? Isn't that the problem with the EPL - it is two leagues in 1. Even if you drop out of the CL early it's worth what, £20M - that's a huge figure as a difference in earning between two clubs. A top quality player a season. CL funds CL football. Utd have had it for years, Woolwich, Chavs even Pool. Citeh are now becoming regulars. That, in way of 'growing the club' needs to be us as well.
So, if Levy/AVB/Baldini are planning for the future, I would still (personally) have focused on the CL slots this season - then bought to consolidate that slot next. Not buy umpteem midfielders that MAY help us also win the Leaugue cup, Europa or FA. As again to me we're already/still light at LB, CF and even with the purchases MAY be light at 10 and LM. But if AVB keeps picking up points with poorish 'style' performances, we'll hopefully get there.
I think (though do not doubt for a second that a Spurs supporter most likely knows the situation better than I) that Spurs master plan may be to create a squad, not only for today, but able to grow in the coming years when it seems likely that a new stadium will be built, no doubt leading to a period whereupon funding may be tighter than normal.
Wholesale changes are very likely to bring problems, at first, though once settled can provide an extremely solid foundation.
If AVB and Levy were unhappy with playing staff, why p!ss about? Get rid and make the changes when the funds are there to be spent.
I honestly believe the future of Spurs is looking very good indeed, which is a worry.
Isn't that one of the problems though? Wholesale changes become a problem rather than a solution. I don't dispute that each of the players bought may turn into a Spurs legend.
This season, to me, was the ideal chance to make the top 4 a permanent position. Changes in managers at Chelsea, Utd and Citeh - your bunch still doubting in Wenger (or were pre-season!) - Pool still not looking like challengers - and Suarez is just a liability waiting to happen.
So instead of just strengthening where we needed it (and I would have been happy for AVB to decide that) - we seem to buy 5 midfielders (when we'd already bought Dembele, Dempsey, Holtby, Glyphi already) - and still then be talking about winning every piece of silverware possible. IMHO, the league THIS season should have been the obvious priority - as another season when the top clubs all change manager isn't likely to occur too often.
But that also then gets away from the style of AVB - I just think I will have to get used to a more cautious approach - as I don't think AVB is an 'audere' character.
Spurs are a team crammed full of new players, those guys may not really begin to play at their best until next season. If I were a Spurs fan I would feel content that the club has bought well and are moving in the right direction. Spurs need the support of their fans now, at a transitional stage, confidence must be built amongst the squad, not damaged at every opportunity by restless fans. I sat through years of a similar scenario at Arsenal, when the players confidence took an almighty pounding from segments of the Arsenal support. I could see the reasons why people were unhappy, but always felt I could also reason the circumstance that lead to certain situations. Great players can look awful when unhappy and out of sorts (Torres, Arshavin, for example).
Ramsey is a different player altogether now that he has finally regained his mojo.
Confidence is key yidsters.
Strange how we all feel different things. For me, the 'fear' of the big teams stopped roughly with BMJ, and then through 'arry, but it has come back with AVB. And it's not just the 'big' teams. I feel at times it's like waiting for a bubble to burst - I just haven't seen performances that to me warrant the position we're in - but having said that I haven't been totally convinced by the performances of the other 'big clubs' either - although Woolwich have been putting in some performances that worry me.
I just don't have much to say of late... earlier in the season I would have gotten irritated by sweeping statements about the new players before we'd had a chance to see what they're really capable of. I'm making up for it with a superlong post today apparently...
Back to AVB, I see what you're saying about the style of play, but I think AVB's first role was to cut costs, hence the big clear out on arrival, and the second was to add some consistency and almost security. I loved 'Arry (and I didn't expect to!) and thought it was unfair for him to leave how and when he did, but I didn't have the same confidence as I do now; no opposition stands out as a worry anymore, whereas several used to.
The style isn't ideal, but I do feel like there's a 'yet' attached to that - it's still a manager with new players seeking his best team, and there have been flashes of the flair we'd all like. I haven't seen the exact comments after Hull last week, but I quite like that it wasn't the usual "best fans in the world" line that's trotted out without thinking; it was ballsy to challenge the stands and paid off, and sort of invited the fans in to the 'inner circle' by making out there's a genuine role for us to play.
I miss the 4-4 days from 6 or 7 years ago (for a recent example), but I don't miss the assumption that we'll lose to the likes of Man U and Chelsea. I accept this is down to changes for them as much as us, but why not be a bit optimistic that we can have both the flair and finish by the end of the season?? I can dream...
Call me a cynic, but the '...the fans made all the difference....' comment seemed more like a man either told that the fans are the ones who pay his wages or a man trying to deflect attention away from a £99billion team only winning on penalties (and the odd one at that) against a team who cost just south of two bob.
And if it takes a crowd of 36,000 to make that difference, I hate to think what is required for us ever to beat a team by more than two at home.
...about the bunch here - Sfer would have it that I drove them away - but I would simply guess that the faffing around with the links being lost off the Yahoo page, the use more of social networking sites to abuse people etc have had their impact. Are 'forums' a dying method of chatting - a bit like landlines...? Seems the one's I belong too are dwindling - hang on, Sfer may have a point.....
I'm not sure that the fans are/were anything but behind HIM (in general), but fans sing when (what) they want, when they want. They tend to try to lift the team when they're down and sing from 'joy' when winning. The problem with Spurs is that we're doing 'well' in way of points and places - so there's no singing required to lift the team to win per se - and the football just isn't (IMHO) of a style to get them singing from joy - a no man's land. So it's a two way street - if AVB wants the fans to sing, then the style has to give them something to sing about. Be amusing to hear what songs are sung tonight.
Irrespective of what some pundits think, football as a spectator sport IS about entertainment - the players are paid like film stars. It's only the clubs who make money out of the punters who want to keep the '....its not about entertainment....its about loyalty....its in the blood....' bit alive - at it's in their interest. If George Clooney turned out boring performance after boring performance, would theatres still be packed with people watching and believing the Studio line of '.....its not about entertainment....its about loyalty... George is an icon...he's in your blood....'. Football for years has relied upon the Emperors new clothes stopping the fans from seeing that what they're presented with 50% of the time is absolute dross.
The last paragraph was tongue in cheek - but I take my lead from Danny Blanchflower:
"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It’s nothing of the kind. The game is about glory. It is about doing things in style, with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom.”
...and remind me again what our motto is: Audere est Facere? - which if my schoolboy latin doesn't fail me means Audi's are made...
Common sense and sensibility would surely say get behind the guy, John, and see how his season pans out. Vocal support at the Lane is a must, plus the fact you guys aren't doing too badly at the minute.
H---Talking of support, where's the squad on here gone, used to one od the best.
Before I start, I admit that I am still not convinced by AVB, so my comments are biased.
I really think that AVB is walking a dodgy line by having a go at the fans. I am still quite happy to give the man at least til the end of the season, but so far, the football we have been playing (IMHO) since he took over has been somewhat lacking for me. I can't deny that he's been getting results, but I'm not sure that simply getting results is what 'fans' in general are after. We seem slow in moving the ball and lacking in movement - loads of possession (which you'd expect with quality players) - but a lack of focus.
I also know that a lot of the playing staff has changed and players take time to settle, but I had hoped that by now we would have been playing with a bit more flair and panache - even with just using the 'old' players.
What also concerns me is that I thought this season, with the changes at Chelsea, City and Utd - and with Pool and the Woolwich bunch still not quite the finished article, that we could have steadily improved and pushed on - and had that chance as the other 'top' teams were also in transition. But then we go out and spend stupid money on a whole raft of players, which then gives AVB the issue of working out his best 11 - which has the inevitable impact of slowing down the development of a particular 'style' (do you play Townsend or Lamela, Holtby or Eriksen, Sandro or Dembele, Lemmon or Chadli, Capoue or...which centre back pairing? Who at left back? Do we need Rose and Walker for the style to gel?......match any 10 issues from 100 combinations).
I still don't think that spending the Bale cash on a raft of players was sensible without having a target plan. I personally prefer the 'see an issue and fix' type approach.
I will end by then saying though, that I am also not certain that AVB is the problem - I am still at a loss as to who is the person who sources and buys the players - was it a Levy/Baldninny thing to spend the money - and was
22 European goals and counting congratulations what a loyal player a future Tottenham hall of famer
Has the knack of showing up more exspensive strikers when they get a starting slot over him he comes off fhe bench and delivers