Liverpool Message Board
Some might call it dropping deep and inviting (danger) teams onto ourselves, but others might call it controlling the game and looking for the counter attack. Personally I find it a little nerve raking myself, as controlling the ball always seems the best defense, although against a side like Swansea you can't expect the ball all the time.
But for me the big turning point was when Phillippe went off injured. We lost our rhythm, and the glue that brought the front line into the game. The first half, especially the first 20-30 minutes (other than when JonJo got his goal) it was the Coutinho show, and it was absolutely sublime. When he went off, and with Gerrard now sitting deeper we just had little creation, and while I'd been impressed with Aspas to date, last night I have to say he was awful.
End of the day, while I'd like us to dominate throughout I think we have to recognize away from home, and against better teams, BR will look to manage the game, and yes grind out the result if that is what is called for. But sitting top of the table using that tactic I'm not sure we should complain too much. Is it better to complain after the fact that we played some great stuff but held on at the end of the result, rather than say we were the better team playing the better prettier football but got robbed of the points?
Speaking of Coutinho getting hurt, from what I saw it was the result of Ashly Williams leaving his knee out for the pint sized Brazilan to crash over on his shoulder injuring him for god knows how long now, it genuinly felt at times like a few Swansea players almost hold a grudge against Liverpool or Rogers or both, a couple of times specialy Williams almost went looking for trouble which colminated in the injuring of Coutinho. I seem to remember him also having a few unpleasent words in regards to Suarez a while back.
Williams has really gone down in my book and am glad we didnt buy him as he has showed signs of being quite a unpleasant individual.
Almost felt like Liverpool vs Shelvy at times, why on earth have we sold a kid with so much potential, strengthening Swansea, could we not have loaned him out a couple years ready to take or play the role Gerrard fills now??
He was an absolute beast against us and if it wasnt for his silly/ recless mistakes probly would have put us to the sword and taken all three points, he wont always be a liabilty and looks to me be a deadly in future.
So many more things to say about this match about the loss of posesion in the second half due in my eyes to a tired and week midfield after Coutinho went off. Sakho looks to be a truly awsome center back at some point soon but was a little bit reckless in his tackles but will only improve with time.
While sitting top of the table at the moment is fantastic, and nothing we envisioned after 4 matches, and a potential 5th winnable, we could have easily been sitting on 4/5 points, if not for the outstanding defending, particularly of Skrtel and Mignolet in net..
I was lucky enough to be at last night's match here in Swansea, (magnificent atmosphere), and I left feeling very lucky to have 1 point in the bag, must have covered my eyes 5-6 times in the last 15..
My only guess is that until Suarez is back, perhaps BR feels the bench lacks a little for us to extend ourselves offensively should Sturridge or Coutinho (who did) get hurt.. Not sure that makes much sense though
I can't ne'er stand why we do this so often after going ahead. We invite teams on and then isolate our attackers. We've got to stop this coz it will be our undoing in the long run.
In saying that it's early days and we will improve but we need to nip it in the bud ASAP.
I am not really sure what you are disagreeing with? All I said was that Arsenal have clearly improved their team without addressing the supposed weaknesses, that is exactly whats happened. I have to say though, the 'dominance' of Arsenal at Sunderland is very exagerated, they could have been home and dry by halftime was it not for woeful finishing from Walcott but Sunderland should have had the equaliser and if not Sagna should have been red carded for the last man foul on Altidore, then the game would have been different. Also, Sunderland have only won 1 match since Di Canio has been manager, they are bottom of the league and the poorest team so far.
"(at least till January!)"?
What planet are you from, Dave? :o)
I could have swore I've read several stories in the papers linking Suarez with a move away from Anfield already AFTER the window closed.
On Ozil's signing, please refer to my reply to Hoiotez's post above.
On what Arsenal needed?, only time will tell but 69% overall possession in Arsenal's favour isn't a bad stats to have especially at a tough ground like Stadium of Light. Most of the so-called balanced sides would be lucky to have that amount of possession against a decent Sunderland side this season. Wenger still knows what makes a trophy winning team despite all the acres of prints that have been written about him in the last 8 seasons . Personally, I'll defer to his judgement on what Arsenal need to start winning things again. Strangely, alot of people still forget that Arsenal were under financial constraints due to the stadium debts. Ozil and the attempts to sign Suarez this summer are the result of the austerity measured imposed in the last 8 seasons in order to give us a great chance of competing with the elite sides for great players in the long-run in the transfer market. As Gazidis rightly remarked earlier in the summer, Arsenal can now pay Rooney's wages to any player the manager is interested in signing. New dawn at the Emirates methinks...
Haven't had the time to post on here as I used to do, but thanks all for contributing your valued inputs to this thread.
Hobitez, I couldn't disagree more. It's poor management to pass along the opportunity to sign an undoubtedly world class player like Ozil when you had the chance to do so, these sort of great players don't become available in the market most transfer windows, and Wenger did well by taking up the chance to sign him. Wenger confirmed after the Sunderland match today that we have now lost Cazorla for up to a month due to an injury he picked up at the just concluded International call-up, we would have been badly exposed in the engine room as a result of Cazorla's unavailability. Arsenal's game is purely based on high possession football due to our midfielders, the absence of Cazorla and Rosicky (also sidelined due to an injury he picked up whilst on International duties) could have left a big void in our midfield. A great coup by Wenger, imo, as Ozil is pure class and he showcased his obvious talent with a sublime performance at the stadium of Light today. The more ammunitions in midfield the better for Arsenal.
Welcome back Colyn, good to see people work out how to get back in here despite it seems Yahoo's best efforts to the contrary.
I agree with you on Spurs. It may not be one final roll of the dice, but it looks close to that. If they don't get top 4 this season, not sure how long they can sustain a squad (which means wages) built for CL football. I know much of this summers spending was financed by the sale of Bale, but while Bale may have been sold for a mega stars transfer fee, he was not on a mega stars wages, and they've basically brought in a handful of players to replace one, each of whom I'm sure are on wages not far off what Gareth was making.
In some ways they remind me of where we were just a few years ago. It was fine to have the wage bill so long as we kept making the CL and progressing out of the group phase, but as soon as we dropped out, it started unraveling fast. I don't wish that on Spurs, (but of course do hope we finish in the top 4 ahead of them) but do think unless all the signings turn out to be as good on the pitch as they are on paper, and that they gel quickly, they might be on a very risky path.
yay I'm back!
For me Tottenham have gone s*** or bust for the Champions League. Transfer wise they maybe ok but their wage bill has gone up a lot for sure. If they don't crack it this season close season at White Hart Lane will be fun from the outside looking in I think.
I think our transfer window still smacks of a club in transition. I also think we'll be that way until we (if) can crack the top 4 consistently. Big ask. Our spend seems reasonable but when you look at what's gone and what's come in then there's a whole lot of logic and sense to it. Although we do seem to have a glut of central defenders now. There's also the bonus of players that had to leave were shown the path to ther clubs.
Completely agree with the Lambert comparison, but on a lower level you could cite Bobby Zamora to for the way he became hot around his late 20's, even RVP was not world class till 2-3 seasons ago. How about Didier Drogba who arrived at Chelsea aged nearly 28? He took a season to come into himself there, I remember Hansen and co laughing at him on MOTD, saying they would much rather play against him then Djibril Cisse, how wrong were they?!
In terms of us, it was a bit like giving a Jousting lance to a samurai, effective weapon but clearly in the wrong hands!
In hindsight maybe the injury should have been predicted, as strains often occur when a player is coming back from a long layoff, especially when they come back sooner than expected. But hopefully having the couple extra days with us playing on Monday will give him a chance to be at least fit enough to give us 60 minutes.
But whether we should risk putting him back into the fray will be a judgement call. I'd play him even if not 100% fit as he's bang in form, and high on confidence. However if there is a risk of further injury I might err on the side of caution. I know we have Suarez coming back soon, but I'd like to see more of Sturridge on the pitch with Luis rather than him being just the back up. The more we play him, the more I think we'll get out of him as he seems to be a confidence player who may not be at his best coming off the bench.
But if Daniel is not available, then wonder, at least for the Swansea match if we should not go with a false number 9. Since we really don't have a real center forward to lead the line, and we know Swansea is going to try and dominate possession in the center, why not just snuff that out by packing the midfield ourselves.
I tend to agree Hobs. For me AC is still a very promising player, and it would not surprise me assuming he can get over the injury issues for him to become one of the better English strikers in the league.
However end of the day he was simply a square peg trying to fit into a round hole once BR came into the picture last summer. No blame on either, its just apples and oranges. For AC to be at his best he needs service, which means speedy wingers who run for the touch line before they swing it in rather than cut inside. As soon as the decision was made we'd base our game around a fast passing midfield, and wingers who were inside forwards rather than touchline huggers, his days were numbered.
One thing I will agree with Jason on is that he does have years on his side. The lad has plenty of time to get over his injuries and prove the doubters wrong. Without the huge price tag hanging over his head, and the glare of the media a club like LFC will always attract he has a better chance of doing that. And, for those who still think you can write off a player if he's not made it to the top by his 25 birthday, take a look at Rickie Lambert who was at Bristol Rovers in league two on his 25th birthday, and tonight he'll be England's number 9!
I would definitely play Sturridge even if he is a bit of a concern, Swansea away can be such a tough place to go and that pace and trickery on the counter attack will be very important. I would rather take the risk of injury in that game and risk playing Southampton at home without him. Obviously Suaro will then return. As Jason was saying, Victor Moses is capable of deputising and Aspas was scoring freely in pre season, I think we will be fine.
I havent seen anything saying it was a ruptured Achillies, just a load of reports it was the same part of his foot with no expected return date. Either way, it is a bit sad for the lad, he wasn't quite up to becoming a Torres, Suarez, Owen for us but he is a good player nonetheless and never showed any lack of effort, he didnt pricetag himself. We definitely did well to recoup the amount we did and it is really telling now. You can almost guarantee the 2 games he plays this season will be against us though! On the other hand, I would happily take any bet on offer that before his career is up he manages to score 20 goals in a season, I am certain that it will happen eventually, can't see the injuries lasting forever, it is quite common in big strikers at a young age!
First of all, I'd like to say I'm sorry to hear about it, and I'd never wish any former Liverpool player any bad news, or personal anguish.. That said, after he's missed most of the WHU pre-season, and opening 3 matches due to a leg injury, he's just suffered a ruptured Achilles tendon, which has him out at least 4 months, possibly the season.. We bought him when he was injured, and he never recovered that year, and also struggled badly while with BR's first summer camp here in the states before going on loan.
I actually feel bad and wish the lad well, but BR and FSG have to be thanking their lucky stars, that Andy himself, or someone else did not convince them to hang on to him this year, and the 15M sale they got, seems even that much better since they don't have his wages nor have to face him.. I do feel bad for WHU breaking their record fee.
This isn't to gloat, but the lad has simply never blossomed to this point, lived up to any expectations yet, despite having many years on his side, and isn't and won't ever be top class in England, the league or country. For all those who blamed BR for this and that about Andy, and even suggested he'd adapt to our style, which includes the fitness and cardio our boys have, is really proving to be factually ridiculous, and the notion he'd score 20 goals in a season for us, ludicrous. Again, wish him no harm, not gloating because that's not proper, but it proves his injury record shows no end. I wish him well, but so thankful he's been moved on, and for the fee we did recoup. Best of luck Andy, and to anyone who thinks he'll win the golden boot in this lifetime..
Agreed, and that's always been my concern / issue with him. Seems the only times he's ever been fully fit that we know of, when was he wasn't playing/being selected at all for Chelsea, and during his prolific run at Bolton on loan. I will say however, at this age, and he's only just turned 24, so many strikers seem to struggle with injuries, particularly the thighs and groin.. Torres was a weekly worry for us, Alexandre Pato couldn't even play 2 games in a row for Milan, Defoe always had his issues, and so many more.
That said, I'm not sure we're all getting the whole scoop on what's wrong, as one day you read it's his thigh, which seems more manageable, and then it's an aggravation of the groin, which is not something to be taken lightly. He admitted to playing the entire United match on an injured thigh. I'm worried because, while he wasn't scoring, Borini looked very good and lively in pre-season and he's on loan, so Aspas is our other option up front, and leading the line @ Swans & Southampton, is a big ask, while we wait on his royal highness..
I "think" we'll see Sturridge for Swans, even if it's 60-65, or coming on as a sub, and Victor Moses having arrived at Melwood today for full training will put him in contention to start, so we may be able to play Aspas up top, with Coutinho central, and 2 proper wide players in Moses and Sterling, which represents a lot of speed and creativity.. Fingers crossed I guess..
I've got to admit, it's a worry how often Danny boy is injured. We really need him fit to play at least 25 straight games. I don't think that's going to happen however. This time we shouldn't rush him back even if we need him.
I think you can get bogged down by the numbers. The most important question is 'are we stronger now than before the window?' Time will tell but I really think we are. As has already been said, we haven't spent the dough available which may be useful in January.
Everybody knows we are still slightly short up front - I worry about Studge's durability and there is a question mark over Suarez's commitment to the cause. On the whole though things are looking pretty good with definitely a good enough squad to keep us going!