Manchester United Message Board
I don't know about the rest of the true fans (not the ABU tools infesting the boards) but I have changed my opinion of Carlos.
Early to mid season, all effort and not a peep of discontent. Later season as contract deadline approached and his appearances weren't as frequent as clearly he would like.
End of season and "United would have won if I had played".
IF the journalists are to be believed and lets face it we have sod all else to go on and we are now considering meeting the valuation, I am disappointed.
For him to so openly criticise SAF and the wave good bye game and the generally poor behaviour towards the end of the season means, for me at least, I don't want him at Old T next season.
Let him do one to Wastelands or even the Bin Dippers.
Yes, he tries bloody hard every game or at least seems to but I genuinely don't think he added that much over the course of the season.
I am not judging him on that abysmal team performance in Rome but for someone who thought we would have won it if he had been on from the off, he was pretty bloody anonymous for the time he did play.
I reckon £25M or thereabouts would be much better spent elsewhere and SAF has been on record as saying Danny and Kiko would be given a chance this year, let alone if Frazer recovers from his disastrous spell with the Crooked Spiv and his Spurs side.
Thanks for everything Carlos but you can move along now.
Utd should only keep Tevez if they can get him for £15M or less. That is realistically where a player of his ability and standing should be valued. At a team of Utd's quality, Tevez will only ever be a squad player and decent impact sub - if he can't deal with that, try to improve and/or be greatful that he'll pick up trophy after trophy that he wouldn't get in a team where he'd be the star, then he should go elsewhere and try, and inevitably fail, to prove Fergie wrong.
The Barca match was disappointing but what it showed was that the midfield rely on Fletcher/Hargreaves when it comes to big matches, with neither available there is a lack of leadership, strength and control in midfield. That is where Fergie should be spending the big money this summer not on a player's who contribution would soon be made up for by the more talented players we've got coming through in the forward positions. Kiko for one deserves more game time next season, and Tevez, if he were to stay, would have to be the one to give way to him.
The main failing with Tevez is his affect on the strike rate of the team. This vision of him coming on to get goals and save the day is 90% myth. Sure he's got a couple of important ones as you'd expect of any striker but overall Utd's mins per goal rate FELL when Tevez was on the pitch from an overall average of a goal every 50m 40s (poor by Utd's usual standards) to an even poorer goal every 54m 34s. The much slated Berba on the other hand brought up the average rate to a goal every 46m (Ronaldo a goal every 49m 8secs, Rooney a goal every 51m 16s). Combine that with all his moaning about not being giving fair opportunity to prove his worth when he played 172 mins more than Berba and only 99 mins less than Rooney over the course of the season.
His end of season tantrums outdid anything Ronaldo's been accused of - even Ronaldo doesn't make the build up to big matches all about him and what he wants the team to do for him nor has he attempted to turn the team’s championship celebrations into his personal farewell parade - and you can tolerate a bit of nonsense from the best player in the world but Tevez is far from that standard. If Tevez isn't completely happy at Utd, when really he should be feeling absolutely blessed to be there - then he should be shown the door - players like him are easily replaced by teams like Utd.
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If the valuation is only 15M then I'd say you will loose him. From how I understand the contract if you don't match the agreed to figure, then Tevez becomes a free agent at the end of the month, and so will go to the highest bidder (assuming they can meet personal terms). And I'm sure there is any number of clubs who will be willing to pay well north of 15M for a proven prem striker.
Personally I think you'd be crazy to let him go. But if you do take a pass on him, I just hope you don't bash the lad too much if he ends up still in the prem. I've heard some already say the loyalty issue is reason not to keep him. While some of his antics may have gone too far, personally I don't see them as any worse than Ronaldo's (although understand that's just opinion).
But if he does not stay with you, got to ask the loyalty that the club has shown him. They valued him at one price 2 years ago, and now think he's worth less. There maybe good reason for the discounting, but its not really a sign of love toward the player. So if he ends up at City or Liverpool it will be because you drove him there, and you can't really blame Tevez for your own actions.
I have been saying the same thing for ages.His strike rate is not good enough, especially as a lot of his games were against " weaker " teams.
Let him go and get a decent forth striker.
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer he ain't !!!
I still want us to keep Tevez, Wobbly. I didn't like the 'farewell' etc. but I don't know how much all that is prompted by Joorbachian. My view on the fee is that we agreed the deal at another time when prices for players were much higher. United have tried to get the price to today's economic reality, but the Madrid pronouncements on targetting Kaka and Ronaldo (who is going nowhere other than OT) suggest we might see silly money again in spite of a global recession. I also feel Carlos is a valuable dimension to the squad and our attacking options. The ABUs will taunt us about Rome until the team shuts them up, but this same squad can do even better next year and Carlos is an important part of that.
- 1 Reply to welshmu
There seems to be no a priori reason that global recession should necessarily impact negatively on transfer fees and players wages. If the fans were staying away because of financial hardship or revenue from merchandise was decreasing for similar reasons, then there would be a problem. But as this isn't happening, and instead there is an increase in turnover, certain clubs should have MORE cash to splash, not less.
Sure you'll brand me as one of those ABU's, but could not the same thing be said about Ronaldo? He blamed the loss in Rome on tactics which has to be a shot at Fergie. He also spent the entire summer last year soaking up the press attention, almost egging Real on, in his should I stay or should I go display. It was only a personal visit (not sure if hairdryers were involved or not) from Fergie that got things sorted.
I would agree with you 100% that if a player treats his manager and or club with disrespect, its time for him to be shown the exit. Yet I see none of the same sentiments said about other Utd players who may have acted as bad, if not worse that Carlos Tevez.
- 1 Reply to dsteer_lfc_68
99% of what Ronaldo was supposed to have said was bollocks, originating from the Spanish press. What WAS said was in private, and neither you or anyone else here is privvy to those meetings. So yes, you do come across as just another ABU.
Also, blaming a loss on tactics, quite rightly in this case, is not a sacking offence.
As to "other United players", shouldn't you be worrying about your own players, and owners?
Totally agree Chris, see my thread for a slight continuation of the subject...
Tevez gives everything, like Fletcher does, but the difference is Fletch actually is effective.
Carlos spends most of the time chasing the defenders around who are simply passing the ball to each other, it just has NO PURPOSE other than looking like he's working hard for the team.
Ive loved the guys effort, in spite of this lack of output, but the clincher for me has been his weekly moaning on the subject. He's been a disgrace if you ask me, much worse than Ronaldo was last summer, and the fact he has the AUDACITY to say he loves us fans whilst admitting he'd be open to joining Liverpool or Citeh just says it all.
If we splash out £25m on him thats even less chances for the two wonder kids, great.
"Sure we lost in the semis, but our performance was NOT as bad as Uniteds in the final. FACT! "
So losing 2-0 on a NEUTRAL ground to the best team in the world was not as bad as losing 1-3 at HOME, and 1-4 overall, to the second best team in the world?
Have a look in the mirror fabongrass (slayer), your head is screwed on the wrong way round. FACT!
I didnt understand a WORD of that POOR attempt at an answer.
Look, i KNOW it MUST hurt, you know, being made to look awfully silly in the CL final and all, but take a deep breath, its not life and death, and opposing fans bringing it up for years is something you guys will just have to get used to, but you know, in the grand scheme of things, its only a game as Chris would say......
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