• Manchester United Message Board

  • Mick Mick Mar 23, 2011 18:15 Flag

    Debt and the Glazers

    The Glazers have been around for a long time. They are in the business of making money. They have weathered the recession better than most.

    I think they know a lot more about their business than the ABU's posting on here. It would not be in their interests for United to fail. The Champions League especially is important to them. Selling players for money is only good if the player sold is looking to move (Ronaldo) but selling players like Rooney just for the fee is not good business sense. Berbatov may go because he is reaching the end of his career, however, I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed another year or two.

    Important point. Glazers=savy business men. Abu's= Idiots!

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    • Mick I'd suggest you don't take the bait from every wind up merchant that posts on this board, nor equate every non Utd supported as just another abu.

      Bottom line the Glazners do not like having their financial dealings out in the open, so I'd suggest you trust them at your own peril. You may well be right and every thing is fine, but assuming it is on face value smacks of sticking your head in the sand.

      But just to give you some food for thought they may have survived the downturn better than some, but they have taken a significant hit against their property portfolio. But they also have a proven track record of taking a sports franchise, invest for glory and then milk significant profit. Whether they are or will do the same to Utd time will tell, but where you are right is they are savvy businessmen, but that does not mean they are football men, and what is good for the bottom line is not always the same thing as what is good for the supporters.

      btw, I do have an axe to grind with Utd, I'm a Liverpool supporter, so feel free to pass me off as just another abu. But my axe is on the pitch, not in seeing a football institution being asset stripped.

      • 2 Replies to dsteer_lfc_68
      • The Abu comment was directed at the dim wits that post here. You know who they are as well as I.

        "Savy Businessmen" do not kill the Golden Goose. Manchester United make them a lot of money and once the debts are settled (or moved elsewhere), they will make even more.

        It is not in their interest to asset strip. Either they will stay and make money or they will sell to the highest bidder and make money. The one thing they will not do, is sell the best players for the sake of a few million pounds. This is what the Abu's (the Idiots that post) fail to see.
        If they are waiting for the Glazers to detroy Manchester United so their team can win something, they will be waiting a long time.

      • It drives me mad that this needs repeating everytime because the media reporting on this issue is so poor.
        The 'loss' is the P&L account and is predominantly one-offs and depreciation. Its numbers on a piece of paper. The Balance sheet tells the real story, United throw off more free cash than any other football club in the world ( even though Bayern, Madrid and Barca receive far more in TV rights).
        The 'debt' is now entirely the Bond which is about GBP500m with an 8% coupon., thats GBP40m per year. As United's operating profit is significantly higher than this, from now on it does not represent a unmanageable burden, indeed as I often said, its less than what would probably be paid out in dividends on a stock valued at over GBP1bn.
        Of course you don't get much of this in the media or from ABUs.

    • The only thing the Glazers have been doing is milking you. All the money you generate goes to service the debt and their pocket...there are a few crumbs left for new players.

      Just imagine what you could have done with all that money, had the leprechauns not bought your club, it's frightening. Being a Chelsea fan, I hope they stay for as long as possible.

    • No club will over Rooney anywhere near the 250,000 pounds he earns per week so forget about him being sold. Berba maybe sold, he could bring in 10 million at 30 years old. Then Nani and Hernandez would raise a few bob.

      However with so many players retiring and becoming fringe players I don't think it is a time to sell.

    • " they are in the business of making money"! what a REDICULOUS remark about the glaziers, did you think they made lollypops .

    • You lot can dress it up all you want but the fact remainds, that manure are HALF A BILLION IN DEPT, now thats NO windup its fact, or are you all dopes.

    • Hi Ian

      I was asking if your "and your debts?" post was aimed at me as I wasn't sure. I assume from your reply that it was.

      As such, you seem unable to seperate someones allegiance to a football team with them having an honest opinion about anything else. It makes no sense when you say "What people like you seem unable to understand" when I haven't passed an opinion on Utd's debts. You seem to want to condemn my opinion because of who I support before you hear it. That makes you a very narrow-minded man/boy. I guess that is my point.

      For the benefit of more open minded Utd fans; despite being a Liverpool fan for over 30 years I have huge respect for Utd as a club and have no wish to see them being dragged under by greedy yanks looking to make a quick buck. I'd always assumed that the well supported green & gold parade meant that many Utd fans felt concerned about the Glazers' motives. Most Utd fans posting here seem to be suggesting that the Glazer's represent sound finances. I hope you're right.

    • That is assuming the Glazers want to sell that the Arabs are still interested and if someone does buy you they don't borrow to buy just like the Glazers. That's a lot of assumptions

    • Hi Levy.
      Taking your points in turn
      The bond is a fixed 7 year structure with a known coupon. Libor rates could and probably will over this period increase a lot to counter inflation. Its always easier to run a business against 'known' criteria, and this is a fairly normal business structure.
      I don't know where the financing came from to pay off the PIK loans. However with them removed and the restrictions of the further debt built into the Bond structure, it looks a lot more stable.
      Why should we care where the PIK money came from?
      I think there was an inherent instability in the old PLC structure for the very reason you identify. It doesn't matter how 'supportive' shareholders are, given the level of investment, they will want a decent return on their money. As they were never certain of the level of dividends under the old structure they increasingly looked at United as a 'growth' stock, one to cash in at a profit. This led to the sale to the Glazers. If the dividend payment was more certain, and here we are talking about at least 6% for the sort of risky investment a football club represents, you can do the sums, as the value increases and new shareholders come on board the 'cost' of the dividend payment would at least equal the Bond coupon. It is extremely unlikely anyone investing the sort of money involved with being a core shareholder in United would contemplate not having some certainty in the level of dividends.
      I don't see anything particularly 'fishy' about any of this, at least not more than any other complex business structure once you start looking closely at it. If you want 'fishy' look at the Virgin structure.
      Until the revolution we are stuck with this sort of thing, Glazers or no Glazers.

    • Take it you class those Utd fans with Norwich scarves in with the idiots?
      Savvy businessmen? Have you seen what has happened with their shopping mall investments?
      Hope you are happy with your owners for many more years to come

    • Hi pool. I find your concern for United heartwarming.

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