• Leeds United Message Board

  • Tom Tom Dec 9, 2011 13:07 Flag

    Leeds V Watford

    A WELCOME WIN at WATFORD WOULD be WONDERFUL. WOT, WOT !!
    Predictions and comments please.
    For me : 0-0 half time... 0- 2 full time, to us of course!
    Formation 4,5,1. That's the way to do it. Suck them in and hit them on the break.
    Wishing and hoping we play the wide men in their preferred slots.
    MOT as always, onwards and upwards keeps Simon in the job he deserves. For he is Leeds.

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    • Some interesting points made on formations Andy. I think with the current match day squad we have, or the ones Simon chooses to go with, we have little choice but to adopt either 451, or 442 depending on who we play and where we play. The lack of ability of individual players to adapt to change during match play often hinders formation flexibility. A flat back 4 offers safety, so flexibility therefore must come from the midfield upwards. Hence 451 can easily convert to 442 and vice versa. Our Spine needs to be stronger and more creative (no surprise there ) that will only happen if old Ebenezer releases his purse strings or he trades on one of our more prominent players currently under scrutiny. I hope its not the latter.

    • Well your right it is predictable. M.O.T

    • Lotto, my original post was about Simon’s predictability; how, knowing in advance, other managers can set up their sides up to play Leeds to their advantage. This is not about Leeds always playing 4-5-1 or 4-4-2.
      A 4-5-1 (4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 or other variations) formation allows subtle changes to get the best out of the line-up. 4-4-2 is not so easy to change.
      At home games, when you expect teams to be attacking, 4-4-2 is a good system to protect the home goal. However, playing 4-4-2 at away games, when you need to break down the home side, seems to make no sense – it might possibly work if the other team is not expecting it but, as per my original post, Simon semaphores his game plan – he always uses the same line-up and formation that won the last game.
      As a case in point, the only game this season Leeds played with consummate style was against Notts Forest, when (maybe in honour of Gary speed) Simon took an unexpected approach and set our players in a formation that made the best use of their positional skills.
      I do not think Simon Grayson is a crap manager, but I suspect he is in cahoots with Bates’ plan for the club.

    • No matter what formation we play Andrew, other managers counter it if we play it that often, but as in any game play the manager has to have the ability to then counter the other teams formation if nothing is happening. Whether Johnny boy would of made a difference I doubt it as we have all seen he can't play in a 4-4-2 why I don't know? As for Ross, again you have to change how you play yes you can pick him but to make an impact he might have to adapt a bit, and all top players should be able to do that and not be a one trick pony. And if hoof ball is not working then adapt to another style with a different formation, formations can be changed to and fro in a match to soak up pressure etc but thats all in a days work for a good manager.

    • Allegedly, Napoleon only recruited ‘lucky’ generals and I am happy that in Simon Grayson, Leeds seems to have the equivalent of a lucky general. Other sides dropping points and Leeds gaining them when it plays poorly is good fortune.
      For sure, as supporters we should remain firmly behind Simon. As the Whites’ manager, he should know better than ‘all the armchair pundits’ should. However, as supporters, are we not all armchair pundits? Without supporters expressing their opinions, football team boards would not exist. Indeed, without supporters’ opinions on their teams’ performances, and not caring why of how their teams lose, win, or draw, matches might just as well be played behind closed doors for all the interest it would create!
      The most interesting fact about Jonny Howson’s presence in the team is that he is effective when playing in his natural position as an attacking midfielder in a 4-5-1 formation. Whether Jonny’s absence from the 4-4-2 line-up that faced Watford would have made any difference, is debatable.
      My opinion is that Simon got his tactics wrong - and that summat aint right at the club. As I do not want to be seen as the only Leeds fan marching out of step, I am including a post by ‘Dje’ (below) from another board that is typical of what many other fans are saying about our performance against Watford.

      From Dje on TSS
      “Good result (great result from the perspective of 90mins+4). Complaints.
      I just cant see the logic of playing well with 4-5-1 and then opting for 4-4-2 on the road. Sam and Snodgrass are wasted in 4-4-2 and Becchio is ineffectual, bizarrely. All it does is invite us to play our part in the hoofball and head-tennis that Watford were up for. Play 4-5-1 and you open up that extra midfield player as a passing option from the defender's point of view, you open up the chance of the overlap and to get the ball down on the deck down the wings, it also either allows us to pressurize their defender on the ball (when going 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3) or gives them room to tempt them to play it into midfield rather than hoof it forward (4-5-1). Quite simply, variations of 4-5-1 gives you so many options to usurp your opponents desire to dictate the kind of play that 4-4-2 simply does not. Three seasons on and we are still as naive against these kinds of opposition and how they want to dictate as we were when Millwall put us out of the playoffs in 2009. Grayson, will you never learn.
      As to yesterdays line-up, wouldn't White have made more sense on the left wing? You know, where he has suddenly looked like a bit of class in the last couple of games, and our ONLY player with pace. Sure, Pugh is filling in for Brown in the middle, but personally O'Dea looked steady enough at left-back to play that role (and was considerably the stronger link in our O'Brien-led backline).
      Finally, Nunez. The LUFC site has him down as one of our very few midfielders, but if he can't get a spot on the bench when Howson and Brown have just been injured then I really can't see when on earth he ever will. Then again, a la McCormack, score too many goals, prove too effective, and you are likely to be nobbled out of the starting squad as the manager tinkers with the way we play. Snodgrass beware!!”

    • Lucky omen H. Four little belters as they say. Wonder what the odds would be for us to win 4-1 on Saturday? That would put us firmly in the MIX and a few quid in the Kitty.
      Freddie and the Dreamers part 1

    • Speaking of good form, Tom, Little Mix earned me a few bob tonight. Fancied them from 5 furlongs out and got 4-1 on them.
      H---Paddypower

    • A lot of alliteration already, Tom!
      What line-up do we think Simon will go with? Watford is likely to play 4-4-2. For us, 4-2-3-1 is probably our best formation. I would suggest this team selection:

      McCarthy;
      Connolly, O’Dea, Lees, White;
      Clayton, Pugh;
      Sam, McCormack, Snodgrass;
      Becchio

      Subs: Lonergan, Kisnorbo, Vayrynen, Keogh, Nunez

      Snoddy and Connolly have an established partnership on the right but Snoddy is a left-footed player and Sam, our other winger is right-footed. I’d swap them over so they play in their natural positions, hoping that Connolly can link with Sam and, with Snoddy on the left, the overlapping interplay between White and Pugh is not interrupted.

      • 1 Reply to Andrew
      • that formation looks good to me Andy.
        I am no good with predictions, but Watford seem to have picked up their game recently and although I would not be unhappy with a draw I feel a win is a must at the moment.

        We look to have a very hard end of season fixture list and I feel a good run from now to the new year is essential if we are to achieve anything this year.
        The defense is still looking a little frail, but if they can keep it tight 1-0 to the whites could be a great result. MOT

    • Tom heart says 2-1 Leeds,head says 2-2
      Probably 4-5-1 formation,we should be high on confidence and away from Elland Road we seem to play with less pressure M.O.T towards another win :)

      • 1 Reply to Lottolee
      • This is a prediction from a Watford fan:
        "Leeds’ attacking force is going to be a good test for our new look defence, but I fear our struggle for goals up front could be our undoing. I may be a bit pessimistic here, but I think a repeat of last season is on the cards. Watford 0 Leeds 1."
        I'll be happy with that!