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  • Jlock Jlock Apr 1, 2009 15:38 Flag

    The Emperor's New Clothes

    It really winds me up when I hear people just jumping on a bandwagon.
    It happenend with Robbo - he was suddenly a c**p keeper because a ball bobbled ......everyone, but everyone then leaps on the poor sod and says he's c**p...
    Then they did the same with Daws...then Bale...

    Now Bent - what is it with people? Read the article by Parker:
    https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/paul-parker/article/4403/

    ...it has to be me, but I look at the leagues top scorers and I see:

    Anelka Chelsea 15
    Gerrard Liverpool 13
    Ronaldo Man Utd 13
    Crouch Portsmouth 11
    Davies Bolton 11
    Robinho Man City 11
    Agbonlahor Aston Villa 10
    Bent Tottenham 10
    Lampard Chelsea 10
    Zaki Wigan 10
    Cisse Sunderland 9
    Cole West Ham 9
    Defoe Tottenham 9
    Rooney Man Utd 9
    Torres Liverpool 9


    Now maybe I can't read - but I don't see Pav there or RK - are they than c**p or 'yet to convince that they are capable of doing a job at EPL level'? Where on earth is Heskey? He's NEVER scored.
    People don't like Bent - fine - but that is an opinion. He still scores goals - fact - for Charlton (in the EPL) for Spurs (he even got 6 when he was 4th in line behind RK,DM, and JD) - he's got 10 this season. So why try to demoralise the poor s*d?

    It's the Emperor's clothes - no one wants to contradict the 'experts'.

    Ok....I'll take the medication and go back to dribbling in my sleep......

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    • Not being funny john but we could of stuck two legs of chicken high up the park and they would of scored the same if not more. There's been enough balls in the box for fucks sake. Darren has two left feet and both can't shoot and Paul parkers a cunt

      • 1 Reply to Roger Mellie
      • Rog,
        OK - if that's 'a fact' then where have our goals come from? RK - no. Pav - no. JD - maybe.
        So all our strikers are 'c**p' - is that then true?

        Bent 10 in 17 and 4 in 5 in the UEFA..

        Look at : http://www.spursodyssey.com/0809/apps.html


        ...and where does that then place Heskey - would you have Heskey in your team? And even more surprisingly what about old Berbatov (ok - so that has nothing to do with the Parker article)? Is he now a non-entity as well?

        I say it again - Bent will never set a club alight - but he will get 15 goals a season for you (given that he's played - and not just as a sub).

        I'm not a fan of Bent - but I find it annoying when people ignore what's in plain view and believe whatever 'hype' is flying around at the time.

    • The difference is Pav is at the end of a long season and it's his first season in EPL, nonetheless you can see he can play the game.. We know RK failed at Liverpool but his record at Spurs speaks for itself.

      I'm sorry, but there is nothing in Bent's game that suggests to me that he is a class striker. Yes he has scored a few, some lucky, some clumsy, some tap-ins, but I struggle to recall any of real class. His contribution to build up play is virtually non-existent, due to lack of awareness and lack of skill in holding the ball.

      I would love Darren to go and prove me wrong but I have yet to see anything to convince me.

      • 1 Reply to Born2Suffer
      • I have to say John I agree with B2S. This is not about how many goals Bent has scored as we all obviously can count so it must be about something else mustn't it?

        A lot of fans think his all round play is not up to the standard needed to make THFC a better side. I have said on here before that I quite like the bloke, not flashy or loud mouthed just takes the critism and gets on with it when he is put on the park, and I would love him to prove me wrong BUT there are too many things wrong with his game (ball control, holding the ball up, linking in with others etc) to make him a great.

        Yes I agree he will probably get 15 goals for whoever he plays for but someone else in that position might get 20 AND help other strikers to get a few as well which Bent doesn't. The other thing that does not help him is the £16.5 million quid he cost. Everybody has a right to expect much better for that sort of money. Again, not his fault but......

    • Oh 'ere we go again!

      I totally here what Mr. Locke is saying...but what do I know. Roger's the expert. Bent's our top scorer (you'll note the top scoring list this season is nothing liike last season at this time...much lower totals).

      To be honest Bent frustrates the hell out of me. And yes, he does miss some screaming sitters (but then so do most strikers...I've seen some in recent weeks that sit right up there with Bent's missed header [ the one that if it was on target would've possibly been saved...imho]. Let's face it scoring isn't easy, if strikers took 75% of their chances we'd have ridiculous looking scorelines.

      Spurs fans feel fleeced. Maybe if Bent came in at 4 or 5 mil he wouldn't be so much of a target, but we bought him when he was the top ENGLISH striker in the league two season running (but one season after a major knee surgery). Charlton hiked up the value; there was competiton for his signature, so they hiked it up some more and we bit and took the bait. Like John L said, none of this was his fault and if I recall Bent at the time, he was pissed off with Curbishley for the over valuation and felt that he was being held against his will (by Charlton pricing him out of the market). Anyway, that's neither here nor there; what's done is done.

      Bent unproven in the league, Paul Parker's having a laugh. Bent aas a world class striker...deifinitely not! Whiel the two statements are related its more in the: we have shitty English strikers therefore English strikers are not world class. (This must be true as Lampard and Gerrard routinely find themselves atop the goal scoring charts(and last seasons top scorere was not a striker and not English)...and they're mid-fielders. Rooney's about as close as England gets to a world class striker, and he spends half his time in treatment or suspended

      Bent will probably move on in the summer.

    • I just took a look at the stats for Heskey Rooney Owen Bent Defoe Agbonlahor and Crouch...and it doesn't say much good about the state of the English game as far as English strikers are concerned.

      Owen being the top goal scorer of the bunch (and I know he left the country for a bit; but mainly its injuries that have kept his totals down). Defoe being second best and Bent 3rd...yes Darren Bent 3rd top active top flight English goal scorer (and only 13 goals behind JD with 46 less games played). Again I'm only stating this as the fact that it is. If the argument is (and I think it always ends up being; whether or not Bent is world class or whether or not Bent has a good all around game)...then there's no argument. But if the argument/question is "can Darren Bent score goals?" Then the facts give the answer.

      Is Darren currenttly our best striker; there would be an argument there if Defoe didn't get crocked (or crocked himself, whichever), but if you define a striker as a player who is on the field to score goals then, yes he's currently our best striker.

      Another thing that surprised me with those BBC stats...the amount of J. Defoe's league appearances that have been from off the bench (86 out of 295)...and still he knocks in 108 goals (league goals)...Bent appeared as a sub 46 times out of 249 appearances to bag 95 league goals in all (these are combined totals that include all clubs the players played for).

      It's funny though I remember having similar discussions about Defoe and his worth to the team (I don't think it was on here, probably the fantasy side of the site) just before he packed his bags and left. I argued for JD (so I'm glad he's back, but not happy about his current situ...don't know what happens when he gets back either...Keane wasn't fully back when he got "injured"

      Oh well...I'm babbling now...so I'm off

    • OK. Its all "IMHO" anyway.

      Just imagine...

      Bent and Rooney play several games, say 10, together. Bent scores 2 and Rooney scores 3. Total 5

      Heskey and Rooney over the same period. Heskey scores 2 (about the same ratio as Bent which is not unrealsitic) but Rooney scores 5. Total 7


      Heskey may only be on a par with Bent as far as scoring is concerned but because he is better than Bent at all the other things a striker needs his playing partner scores more.

      IMHO!

    • John....far from being persuaded by the media.

      I never wanted Bent in the first place and certainly not for £16m, half of that would have been £6m too much. The bloke can't play, simple as that. I've said before that yes, he scores goals but I agree with Sfer...there is nothing else to his game.

      A CLASS striker scores and makes goals. For instance, Berba, Keane, Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldho, Anelka (ouch), Henri (ouch ouch) Torres, Kuyt, Davies to name just a few current strikers. The ones not renowned for assists generally put in far better figures for strikes than Bent..... Greaves, Law, Lineker, Shearer, Owen... you get my drift.

      Now where does Bent figure in all this, shall we ask Roger?

    • nbr (or should I say 'arry?)
      I'm not arguing for or against Bent per se - just for his 'right' to be judged on what he's done. I was pee'd off (that's a bit strong - maybe slightly miffed - no, even that's tooooo strong....) that he seemed to be the next media villain and everyone just seems to go along with it - without looking at the facts.
      I saw RK miss two or three sitters for 'pool but do you see that get repeated over and over? (I only threw in RK as it seems he's one of the 'loved' and to show that even if you like the style and ethic of a player, that doesn't help them score). Daffy is greedy and lazy (IMHO) - but he also scores - he may miss 8 out of 10 attempts, buit he scores. Heskey just falls over all the time. Agbonlahor - hmmmm - but read the article. It highlights Bent and implies that the bloke can't cut it - but he does. He's a striker and he scores. You can say they bounce of his shin, he scuffs it - but he was there to do it. I'd rather that he tripped over his own feet and the ball bounced of his bum, than him not being there in the first place and us not scoring.

      If the article had questioned Bents hold up play, or his finishing quality, his link up play, his touch ...etc then fine, but to question his EPL record - no.

      The equivalent (but opposite!) would be to maintain that Shevchenko could cut it in the EPL, even when the facts showed that he couldn't.

    • Sfer,
      Why imagine.....
      Heskey look at
      http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/shared/bsp/hi/football/statistics/players/h/heskey_20217.stm
      Rooney look at:
      http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/shared/bsp/hi/football/statistics/players/r/rooney_243973.stm

      Bent look at:
      http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/shared/bsp/hi/football/statistics/players/b/bent_221712.stm

      Heskey is 1 in 4.3 (109 in 465) in the league and 1 in 7.4 (7 in 52) for England and 1 in 5.3 (3 in 16) at U21
      Rooney is 1 in 2.8 (77 in 217) in the league and 1 in 2.3 (21 in 49) for England

      Bent is 1 in 2.6 (95 in 249) league and 0 in 4 for England and 1 in 1.5 (9 in 14) at U21

      How that fits with your hypothesis re Heskey working with Rooney (or any other striker) I can't tell as the stats are limited on even basic assists - I've got my water cooled Cray working on it now. From what I've seen with 'Englang' strike partnerships - I can't actually recall the last one that worked.

      Also, it is interesting took at the goal tally compared to coming on as a sub. For Rooney at England level he came on 4 times out of the 49 - so that gave him 45 full starts. Heskey, 33 full starts (19 subs out of 52). Bent - sub 3 out of 4 starts - so 1 full start.

      OK stats don't show it all and I know stats don't make a good player (eg Jenas runs 20 miles each game) BUT again I repeat - you can slam Bent for anything, but to say he is 'unproven' is a nonsense. The man scores (maybe with his shin, his knee and by tripping over).

      Also, if you're Bent's style of striker - ie hanging off the shoulder of the last defender and using pace, then by virtue of that you won't be seen to be assisting. And I don't disagree that maybe Bent is more suited to a direct game (Bolton, Charlton, Wimbledon style) - but that isn't his fault - if we wanted a class striker and thinker (a la Lineker / Sheringham) - then we should never have bought Bent. And maybe that is also why he won't get games for England. His style doesn't suit the way Engalnd want yo play with the Gerrards/Lampards .

    • u say u noone wanted bent for 16mil but did any one really want pavy for 11mil?
      i think a lot of people lose sight in things, for instance goals are what counts at the end of the day so id rather bent scuff one in then berbatov control the ball superbly-turn on a 6pence & then curl it just over the bar.

    • Yep John,

      You're preaching to the converted here. All else has their opinions and won't be shifted (not that either of us are trying to do that).

      I'll leave it as "it is what it is"

      NEXT!

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