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  • A Yahoo! User May 7, 2009 23:14 Flag

    Refs, Bad Decisions and Cheating

    You make some good points John and you are sure to get a sympathetic ear from some of the old timers in here as well as a youngster like myself!
    Over the last few weeks we have seen several appalling refereeing displays...its astounding the incompetence sometimes but thats all it is ....amateurs in charge of something thats too big to handle.........maybe its time to review how we manage this monster that money has created?
    I have played Sunday football all my life and apart from the odd clumsy foul have never cheated.....if a player goes past me ...well fair play to him...if Im tackled I do all I can to keep the ball rather than fall over.....Ive never dropped like a sack of sh*t, pulled a shirt or taken a dive, feigned injury or timewasted....I simply dont know how to.....it was never taught to me as a lad and my dad never did it when I watched him play.
    I now watch my son play and its unbelievable what the kids are getting up to these days...and where are they learning it all I wonder?
    I dont have a solution to the problems you mention..where do you start? teach the kids a bit of sporting, honour maybe?
    I shudder when I think that in 10,15 years our kids will be talking about the likes of Drogba, Ronaldo and Rooney in the same breath as we wax lyrical about Moore, Greaves, Dalgliesh

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    • The only thing the ref got wrong last night was not issuing red cards to all the chelsea players who surrounded him at the end. Spurs have now had 2 shocking decisions at Old Trafford, a yard over the line anyone?! and a penalty that never should have been given.Its all part of the game. No sense threatening to kill people over a what is just a game.

      • 1 Reply to matt
      • if the ref got 1 of the pen decisions right than the players would have been agresive towards him. they should have had at least 2 pens & 1 that could have gone either way.
        hes cost them a place in the final & probably the last chance a lot of those player will have of winning the champions league.
        yes it was wrong the way they behaved but u cant criticise a player for being emotion. it does show how well our players behaved after some injustices,most notably at old trafford.
        uefa will ban ballck & drogba for 3 or 4 european games next season,so they will be punished for there unsporting behaviour.

        going back to your main point,i do agree. im not proud of football or footballers these days. when i got into football during the italy 90 world cup, i could say i was proud of football & the way the players played & behaved.
        now its all arrogant greedy fairys.
        the people who run football are no better.

        the champs league is a farce & sham of a final. and this is meant to be the centre piece of european footie.

    • when the tiger moth was a caterpillar as they used to say,i used to play cricket....i was a leg break spinner and in one match in particular i got a batsman caught behind twice.....the umpire gave him not out both times.....i found out later he was his father!....i was incensed ...it ruined my day because i knew i had been cheated.....so i can understand Chelsea's reaction.maybe (not condone).....and i think that the referees incompetence both at man u and stamford bridge cost
      spurs and chelsea the game.....i can empathise.....i was livid over webb.....it seems wrong somehow that there is no redress.....but that is life i suppose.....i think we have had suffered more than we have gained from ref's incompetence or lack of bottle....i .could have an idealistic outlook rather than a realistic one.....ah well....it is history now..../

      • 2 Replies to DEREK W
      • Its interesting that you point out the 'idealistic' and 'realistic' viewpoints Derek......I suspect that if you asked any fan of any club whether they felt more 'cheated' by refs than 'favoured' over the course of a season then you would only get one answer. We as fans are always quick to recall the times we have been dealt an injustice by the officials but are we as quick to remember the decisions that have gone for us, or the mistakes that were overlooked that actually helped us?
        Its true that these things probably even themselves out over a season but try telling that to Fletcher, Gomes, Hiddink or Derek W!

      • ...I know this starts getting in the realms of metaphysics and butterflies flapping their wings in some Amazonian forest...

        BUT, all decisions in any game are as important as any other as they are all inextricably linked. The fact that the ref held up play for Dogba to get his head seen to, effectively directly contributed to the Barcelona goal. Surreal, but true, as if the ref hadn't stopped the game at that point, the whole of the subsequent match would have been different. So, to me, I've never been a subscriber to the '...he got the big decisions wrong...' - as the 'big' decision only came about because of some other decision that he already made.

        It's the 'I'm going to change my socks' syndrome. Because of that 7 seconds you spent changing your socks, someone died and someone lived who would have died. 'Cause you leave home 7 seconds late, you miss the bus and take the car. Because you took the car, the car behind missed the lights - but gambled on amber/red and got hit by a car coming the other way....but the car behind him who could have been in that situation had you not been there is now a witness rather than a victim.

        All for the colour of a pair of socks.

        The decision just looks bigger..

    • EY,
      How do you stop it?
      I don't hoenstly know - I think that the malaise is symptomatic of society. Rudeness, thuggery, ignorance and overbearing sense of self seem to be entrenched. That's the first point.
      Secondly, the 'media' love it. Just look at how many 'news' stories it spawned - let alone the fact that it gave Jamie something to go on about on Sky. Bad news sells. Rooney acting the tw*t sells.
      Thirdly money. The 'game' needs the big names to attract the audiences to fuel the money-go-round. So who will act against the cheats and ban them? Who would have the bottle the red card Rooney when he next hurls a tirade of foul abuse at an official?

      I saw that poll over J Barton and there are still 21% of those who bothered to vote who say he should continue. The man is a thug - and I know that you can also have a plumber who's a thug, a banker who's a thug (although in a rich way!) and I know that thuggery isn't a valid reason to get rid of anyone - BUT - he's a thug on the pitch. That then is different - I don't think a plumber would be employed if he beat up his mate or abused a customer or his boss. So that needs to be addressed - those 21% need to realise that that sort of behaviour isn't acceptable anywhere, let alone on a football pitch.

      'Respect'. What happened to that? To me only one person should be able to approach the ref or linesman - the captain. If he is abusive in any way, then it should be an instant red card. You can make a point without abuse - you can be angry, frustrated, adrenalin fuelled - but you don't have to be abusive.

      'Cheating'. The Andy Gray 'Its a man's game' type comments should be banned. If someone cheats by pulling a shirt, it's a foul. It's a free kick and in the area it's a penalty - simple. Using your arms to obstruct a player is just that obstruction. That is also a free kick. The rules are already there. Use them. I would announce that the rules will be enforced - then have a high profile friendly to show what the refs will accept and won't. I bet by the time the saeson starts there will still be a couple of shirt pulls - but at least you'd have started to drive it out of the game.

      Finally, education. My son went to a local summer soccer school a few years back and the first thing that the coach said was that if you spat or swore you're straight off the pitch. But why did he need to say that? The kids only spit/swear cause they see it on the box. They also now argue with the ref - at kid level, because they see theor heros doing it and think it is acceptable. It isn't.
      By the time the kid has been playing from age 6 to under 18 level, then there's 12 years of bad practice to eradicate. Teach them well from the outset.

      Football is a beautiful game - hard, fast and not for wimps. I'm not saying in the slightest '...make it no contact...' far from it - the art of a good tackle (and some dodgy ones) is intrinsic - without that the game loses it's edge. It's an art. Teach it. Don't teach jumping in with two feet at ankle level.

      Bet you wished you'd never asked....!

      • 1 Reply to Jlock
      • Over the years I have slowly become as much a Rugby fan as a football fan and there are two main reasons. First the way that the Ref has total control and the players respect his decisions, good or bad, and even a players own team will drag him away if he is even looking like making a complaint.

        Secondly, I have never seen any trouble either inside or outside a rugby game and in fact I have been to matches where both sets of supporters are singing together in the pub and really enjoying the occassion without any thought of causing trouble.

        And that is without the fact that the players are real men who would not dream of falling over feigning injury in order to gain any sort of advantage.

        Until football gives the Refs complete support and the players are told the "any" misdeamenour (including the things that have now become commonplace such as shirt pulling) will be punished then I am afraid it is only going to get worse.