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  • not_blonde_really not_blonde_really Nov 30, 2011 16:18 Flag

    League cup proposal

    I'm undecided about the initial point, I quite like the sound of it but I'm not sure what good it would do in practise.

    However, I disagree with you on 2 counts in your last comment John; firstly, you're putting it all down to money, but I think the same comments would stand if you said "glory". Of course teams want to do well in the competition that only the elite of Europe are even allowed to enter; is it any surprise Europa's seen as a poor man's version and not considered as seriously? And do you ever see teams like MU and Chelsea prioritising winning CL over the PL? No, because the glory in being the best in your country is still up there. Whereas being the best in a knockout comp that half the clubs entering don't take seriously, where's the glory in that?

    As for players e.g. Pav & Krancar; aren't we supposed to be investing in youth? Don't we - and the FA - keep complaining that not enough is done to bring young "home" players through the ranks? Isn't this a great chance to do that? And it's not saying they all have to be young, maybe 5 of the starting line up, which still leaves 13 team & sub places to be filled. And it actually would be great for the players who are perhaps past their best but still ready to play (I can't think of a good example player, someone like a less good Giggs) to help coach the new blood and prepare them for life after playing?

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    • PS as for bringing through youth - again, surely that is down to the manager and the club.
      The 'snaggette' being that in the overall squad, you can have as many U21's as you like (home grown) - so what on earth do you expect other players to do? It's ok saying bring through youth - but you and I want to see our teams win things as well. Just look at Wenger's approach - personally I think he's the top manager for bringing through 'unknowns' - but the supporters aren't happy because he hasn't won a trophy for so long. Will he be sacked? Possibly.

      It's a balancing act. If the older players - who the club have probably invested more money in in buying and paying salary etc - don't play, then they want to leave. Then you may not recoup the outlay. Irrespective, the act of balancing the expectations of the youth and the older players is what the management is all about. Obviously, if we had talent that 'arry saw in our 'youth' then 'arry would be a fool not to keep them happy as well.

      To me it all smacks of some form of positive discrimination like making sure that a political party has enough female candidates. Surely it should be down to whether enough good quality players are there? If they are, then don't you think managers would be only tooooo willing to play them and get them in the team as they invariably are cheaper that their bought in counterparts? But would you be willing to pee off and lose a player that you'd bought in for the sake of trying out an unknown?

      The problem with bringing home players through is NOT anything to do with playing them in the secondary competitions, it is because the money goes out of the EPL to foreign clubs now, and doesn't filter down through the divisions as it did 30 years ago. That is because of the fans - they want 'big name' signings (just read the posts here) - and they are invariably perceived to be better abroad. The lower divisions used to be a feeder for the EPL - and so we had a wider pool of good British talent.And then don't get me onto 'work horse' over 'talent' that we used to (? still do) engender in Britain (see the comments re Hoddle and Brian Robson).

    • NBR,
      It's glory to lower division teams - because - 1) It bring in a cup run against potentially bigger teams and therefore more revenue and 2) it may bring Euo football if they manage to win it. For Glory = more money.

      I honestly don't doubt that up to about 20 years ago (maybe less) the trophy cabinet was the pride of a club. Now it is about CL football. Do you think any top player cares if we've won the CC or the FAC - don't they only want to come to us because we're now starting to establish ourselves as a top team - and that is because of our profile in Europe.

      A club nowadays is about survival. It costs millions to run even a small club and the EPL is the big payer for the domestic side - so that is the 'grail'. Just getting there and then staying in the EPL is the goal for most clubs. After a while, the additional money means you can improve the squad and start moving up the table - eyeing then either cup success (for 'glory' (or should I say for the extra revenue)) or a shot at Europe. All the time getting more money the higher up you finish.

      I'll do some research (ie I'll google it!) and give you the figures - the CL is obviously the big, big money (I thought we got an additional £20m+), then the EPL, then the FA Cup, then the CC. I'm not sure where the Europey Cup fits.

      (I think I've said this before but to me, the order of priority for the competitions is: CL, EPL top 6, Europa/FA, CC)

    • If I could just pick you up on one point nbr:

      "And do you ever see teams like MU and Chelsea prioritising winning CL over the PL?". This is clearly the Holy Grail as far as Abramovich is concerned. If Chelski fail to get anywhere near the CL final AVB is toast in his first season at the Bridge, not least the unthinkable prospect that might not even make CL next season if we and the Barcodes continue to keep up the pressure on them, the Goons and Scousers.

      I think even SAF wants to win it again after last season's defeat by Barcelona, though that won't stop him trying to prevent Citeh from winning the PL.