• Tottenham Hotspur Message Board

  • ed ed May 13, 2012 17:19 Flag

    Defoe substitution

    So, if 'Arry had put Defoe on during the Villa game, when he should have, would Spurs now have the luxury of watching the filth to sweat it out over the Chelsea-Bayern game instead of us? - his rationale was to go for a safe draw but with Newcastle being beaten today it would not have mattered had 'Arry gone for a win but lost. Spurs would still have been fourth and he would have shown he has some balls. But he hasn't. That at the end of the day, a willingness to take risks to achieve, marks out the great from the ordinary managers. 'Arry, let's be honest, is ordinary. And if Chelsea win, he'll be less than ordinary.

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    • SB - weak Iam..
      I won't address all the points - but I read ages back that Jose even got himself on Wiki because of his style of play -
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-football

      '.....In 2007 the phrase was used in The Daily Telegraph to describe the Chelsea style of play under former manager Jose Mourinho.....'

      Mourinho a good manager? I'm not sure how you judge that. I would say IMHO that Wenger and SAF are 'good', simply because they have build successive teams at the top - but they had money to do that (all be it Wenger used less and tried a different philosophy). Whether Mourinho, SAF or Wenger would be as succesful - and therefore 'good' managing a team like Bolton or Wigan I'm not so sure.

      I'm not sure I liked his style of play at Chelsea, and I haven't seen enough of his teams since then to judge to be perfectly honest.

    • You're right for the most part John but actually I think there are a few cases where players will choose a club based on the Manager. Barry Ferguson for example joined Birmingham when McLeish was Manager because he reportedly enjoyed working for him when he was managing Scotland.

      Years ago when Jol was our Manager, Danny Murphy first turned down the chance to player for us and opted for Charlton who were then-managed by Alan Curbishley. Reason? He did not want to work for a non-English Manager after having a tough time of it under Houllier then Benitez (which he'd said in a Sky interview). Bizarrely enough, he joined us a couple of seasons later! I'll bet Kaboul, Crouch and Defoe wanted to come back to Spurs once Harry was Manager because they enjoyed working with him (Kaboul has reportedly said so).

      What's important though is Champions League, and our non-appearance could be a deterent to some players (especially big names) and could lead to our best players leaving us. Can't really blame them for that although I'm sure our fans would give Modric a huge amount of stick if he joined a club with a better record of sustained Champions League appearance.

    • sorry john, i cant be bothered to read all your posts about the villa game anymore.
      we are getting nowhere. i have come to the conclusion that u will never admit harry & u we're wrong not to take the risk for the win. lets leave at that!

      but iv just seen ur reply about jose.

      i think this shows why u are bad at debating.

      firstly, jose is a much better manager that harry!
      i hope u arent going to dispute that!

      second of all, roman is still paying for his mistake of getting rid of jose. he still hasnt found a manager as good or as succesful for the club.

      i personally would rather play boring & win.
      than play exciting football but fail.

      results come 1st.

      thats another debate altogether.

      but lets go back to my actual point.

      id rather a manger who takes a few risks especially when its the most logical thing to do.

      rather than have a manager who settles for what he has & hopes other teams slip up.

      see, u never stick the actual argument. u cant win it so u change it to about something else, like joses style of play.

      the actual point is would u rather a harry who settles for what he has or a jose who goes for it.

      u my friend would easily say the 2nd choice. because u have already said u prefer managers who aim for the top etc.
      that easily fits jose more than harry.

      but because u are too proud to admit u or harry is wrong, u will suddenly change your whole way of thinking again!

      more 360s than a (cant think of anything to finish off that sentance).

      im sure u will change the subject again as always.

      or for a change are u going to stick to the actual point about either going for it & having destiny in your own hands or settling for what u have & hope others slip up.

    • Aaaaargh, I just said I wouldn't post again on this....

      Are you talking about the same Jose who was branded with the boring football epithet - the same Jose that Abramovich wanted to get rid of because of the style of play?

      Sacre vert......

      That is my last post...unless my weak will takes over yet again...

    • i agree glenn. every season i hear we have closed the gap on arsenal & will over take them next season.
      & as always, we dont!

      arsenal ud expect to get stronger next season.
      this was our chance to finish above them & possible deny them CL.
      instead we settle for a pt & hope they mess up.

      arsenal will spend in the summer. they will have wilshire back too who is probably their 2nd best player. they had a lot better 2nd half to the season than we did.

      hopefully rvp will go but thats still 50/50.

      chelsea ud expect to be better too.

      theres a 50% chance we wont be in the CL next season.
      if we arent than we will miss out on millions, we cant attract the better players, we could lose key players whilst they bank another 50m & can attract better players than us.

      i dont see why all that is a good thing for us?!

    • ...some men achieve insanity, and some men have insanity thrust upon them.....

      Francis Bacon (a pre cursor of Colonel Saunders)

    • Well I don't disagree that against Villa we were not attacking till the very end. It was kind of impossible to not be attacking them the way they (Villa) were playing.
      IMO... The problem is we didn't have the sufficient players on the pitch to get that second goal.
      The fact Harry was about to bring Defoe on at 1-0 showed that he felt we needed to get a goal and the 10 we had on the pitch at the time was not enough to get that goal.
      So OK, we got a penalty and scored from it, but that's a penalty. So now we're at 1-1... but what's so different that Harry decided to change his mind about bringing on another striker?
      If we needed a goal so much at 1-0 he was going to bring Defoe on, yet at 1-1 he must have felt a second goal was not quite as vital!
      Yes a point is obviously better than nothing, and 3 is better than 1... but in this case the 1point had nowhere near the influence it usually carries whereas the 3 could have guaranteed the riches of CL football had he been brave enough.
      For me, the pros of going for the win far outdoes the risk of losing the game where we could still have qualified if various results went our way.
      Bringing another striker on would have given us that extra cutting edge. VdV was tired, as an attacking player it was only common sense to replace him with another attacking player... yet he brings on Parker.
      The timing of the substitution was much too late... so that showed hesitancy... but the player he brought on for VdV showed he settled for the 1 point and was not willing to Dare for the 3 that would have guaranteed Spurs CL football next year and not leave us all hoping WBA could get a result against the Ar$e and Bayern beating a very inform and high spirited Chelsea.

      So for me, it only made sense to go for the win!
      Why hope that other teams can do you a huge favour when your own destiny was still in your hands?
      That to me is a lack of desire and courage.

      I still like Harry... and even though he makes me mad sometimes with his lack of tactical knowledge and raw passion... he's still done a great job at WHL. It's just a shame because he let the opportunity pass him by to grab a much deserved 3rd place for Spurs. Even after a meltdown over february, march and april... we could still have salvaged the position.

      Here's hoping he learns his lesson for next season.

    • 'Going mad'

      That implies you may have been sane at one point?!

      Despite your lunacy, Sandra did put her foot down, apparently she vito'd 'arry going for the England job:

      http://asia.eurosport.com/football/euro-2012/2012/wife-blocked-harry_sto3254776/story.shtml

      With regards to the board holding us back, I don't know and hadn't heard that before. Unless we are bought by some uber rich sort, we will have to grow the 'organic' way, pay for things as and when we can afford them.

      IMO there is something to be said for earning your success, how many citeh fans would admit that their recent success is muddied slightly due to Arab billions buying it for them? how many of them care?! how many would say I'm just jealous?

      I read the recent statement made by Levy, largely it said what I wanted to hear from our chairman. People may be rude about Levy, but as a businessman he is incredible.

      COYS!

    • "here's my last word on 'Arry. The Guardian has just published its shortlist of nominations for manager of the season. You can read the list below. Guess who didn't make the list?"

      What utter drivel!!! Look at who is on that list and the expectations of where everyone expected them to finish at the start of the season! Mancini is on that list because City won the league; Rogers and Lambert for not only not getting relegated but actually doing well for a first season team; Pardew obviously for finishing fifth and Martinez - for managing to get Wigan out of the fire.

      Should we then say by your reasoning that Fergie, Wenger are crap managers because they didn't make the list either?

      Christ! Three out of the four seasons Harry has been in charge we have qualified for Europeon football! What other fucking manager have we had lately that can boast that achievement?!?

    • I'm glad KM, I was beginning(?) to think I was going mad....mad I tell ya......

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