• Tottenham Hotspur Message Board

  • Jlock Jlock Jul 22, 2012 11:42 Flag

    Player Power

    I'm in two minds here.
    Generally, I feel that it is anyone's 'right' to withhold labour. Typically though, I think that the option should be used with caution as it is last resort to use when being 'oppressed' or when your employer changes your working conditions.

    I find it difficult to see 'oppression' in an EPL footballers case though. They sign contracts. The contracts are for a period of time and for a value. They are aware of all the conditions at the outset. The conditions tend not to change - and if/when they do the contracts appear to be re-negotiated and extended in the players favour.

    I'm then at a loss at the recent spate of players that seems to think it valid to withhold their labour - whether that's manifested in not training, not coming off the bench....blah blah. I just don't see that they have a leg to stand on.

    If a player wants to leave a club.. Fine. If the chairman/manager persuade him to stay. Fine. If he then subsequently wants to leave because of changed circumstances. Fine. BUT in all that he has to realise that he has a contract that he agreed to. If the chairman/manager promised him 'stuff', then his agent should have seen to it that those promises were added as clauses to the contract. That is what the agent is there for.

    The 'my head isn't right' bit is a bit galling. Even if a player is on £1000 a week it's galling - let alone £10,000 pw....If a player isn't sure about the future, then sign a shorter contract or have safeguards built in that allow you to leave should x or y occur.

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    • I just love the media - read this:
      http://www.footylatest.com/tottenham-getting-tough-on-luka-modric-who-is-no-longer-a-part-of-andre-villas-boas-plans/31402
      (or not as is your wont)...

      AVB was allegedly after Modric for Chelsea last season, and now they're reporting that Modric may not be part of AVB's plans at Spurs. OK, so he was good enough to (allegedly) offer £40m for to improve the Chavs squad, but now not good enough for us? I presume that's because AVB has realised the hidden talent he has in Jenas ;-)!

      • 1 Reply to Jlock
      • Allegedly!

        I have little confidence in this article, it doesn't stack up. As you pointed out AVB was after Luka in his chav days, now he doesn't want him?!

        I think it's far more likely that AVB would like to keep Luka, but has resigned himself to losing him (as have the vast majority of us), it seems when nothing else is there to be reported the media just resort to reporting crap.

        The Media do not like AVB, it was obvious in his chav days and I think quite a few of them are desperate to see him fail with us- maybe I have a over cynical view of the media, but largely they are a bunch of parasitic charlatans, who will write anything in order to fill column space.

        I am getting concerned now though! IMO we need at least 4 additions to our squad, just top stay competitive. 8 days til the Newcastle game! 8 days!

        Give us a chance Levy!

        8 days and counting!

        COYS

    • "Levi isn't so much holding LM against his will as making sure he gets what the club needs from the transaction. He has said he can go for the right money for Spurs! If Real don't consider him worth that then that's unfortunate for Luka. He'll have to play better next season to make Jose want him enough to pay Levi's valuation or hand in a transfer request and forego his loyalty bonus which will cut the transfer fee and make it more acceptable to RM"

      in a pefect world its!
      not very realistic. would be a huge gamble to keep modric against his will. i still think 30m+5m add ons is fair.

      another flaw with your logic. say levys valuation is 40m & madrids is 30m at the moment.
      then modric does as u say & improves next season to make jose think he is worth the 40m levy was asking for.
      surely by this logic levy would then ask for 50m because he has improved his value by 10m over the course of the season.

      no one is going to pay 40m for modric. so by levy saying we wont sell him until 40m is offered, is basically forcing him to stay against his wishes.

    • I read somewhere that we owe Luca's previous club a sell-on amount + his own loyalty(???) bonus and his agents fee would take £10m out of the sale. If this is the case then I can understand Levi playing hard-ball with Real.
      To buy Moutinho, who seems to be the replacement AVB wants, would cost £31m so what's the point of selling Modric and paying another £10+ million for his replacement?
      Levi isn't so much holding LM against his will as making sure he gets what the club needs from the transaction. He has said he can go for the right money for Spurs! If Real don't consider him worth that then that's unfortunate for Luka. He'll have to play better next season to make Jose want him enough to pay Levi's valuation or hand in a transfer request and forego his loyalty bonus which will cut the transfer fee and make it more acceptable to RM. IMHO I think £35m would be acceptable to Levi in this situation.

    • Hi Joe,

      Re exodus; this is the real bonus that having a secure manager brings; I remember not long before 'Arry came in saying on here that I wasn't a big fan of Ramos, but I'd like him (or possibly 'our next manager', I don't remember) to have at least 3 seasons and I'd back him resolutely through good and bad.

      Every manager wants a squad that plays 'their' way, with the right attitudes, and of course there will be players who struggle to adapt to their play or plain old miss their ex-boss, so it's natural, but it brings such uncertainty. This is why everyone thinks of Spurs as such a big-spending club, whereas we've all been aware of Levy imposing a fairly strict balance in the last few years at least - with the swift turnover of managers we had pre-Redknapp we had a ridiculous number of people trying to build 'their' squad, meaning that players could never 1) settle into a style of play, and 2) feel any job security. We're at real risk of that kicking in again if AVB doesn't get it right from the off. Arguably the main reason Chelsea have done as well as they have is because of the very issue at the centre of this thread; they've had so much player power that their ever-changing managers haven't have the impact they could (should?) have had.

      IMHO, natch ;)

    • Joe,
      But there's the rub Joe - at what price do you sell him? Obviously Modric doesn't give a stuff - he just wants to move. Levy has to weigh up the impact of losing him over what price he thinks he can get to release him from his contract - and who then is available to replace him.
      I'm no judge over who is worth what - and I don't have to balance Spur's books, but if Levy puts a price tag of £40m (or whatever) on him, then hopefully Levy has weighed up the impact of not getting that price and having a pee'd off player on his hands.
      I think we would all hazard a guess as well, that if Spurs did get £40m, then whoever we buy with the proceeds will have their value inflated accordingly. So, I'd guess that Levy slapped a high price on Modric to simply say '...he's not for sale...' on one hand, but to leave open the '...they haven't offered a satisfactory price...' defence open on the other.

      All conjecture though, as I haven't a clue as to the motives of Levy and the board, or the state of Modric's 'head'.

    • JL,

      Whilst all the points you've raised are important and I agree with most of them, If a footballer wants a 'release clause', they are the ones who should push for it. These are to an extent details of the problem and serve little purpose in finding a solution. What we need is prompt resolution and IMO the only way to achieve that is to sell Luka asap. We are certainly not the club to make an example and hold a play to his contract we cannot afford it financially or the effects it may have on our clubs ability to attract players in future.

      COYS!

    • Joe,
      I think the Modders 'must be sold' bit goes back to the point of the thread.
      On the one hand, I think Levy and the board are walking a very fine line and could end up with no sale and a very disgruntled employee. On the other hand, Luka signed a contract. Surely, it is/was up to both the clubs and the player to agree on the terms? I don't think anyone forced Modders to sign the contract - and I would guess that the 2016 contract gave Modders better terms and also had an element of commission for the agent.
      If Modders though he may leave, then build in a get-out clause. Have a buy-out clause - other players do.
      So, even though I think Levy is in the 'right' in enforcing the contract, and Modders is wrong in with holding his labour, I do fully understand that the club could well be heading towards an impasse in which case neither the club or the player win.
      I can also understand that Modders may feel aggrieved (if the rumours are true) that Levy may have said he could go this summer - but I repeat here - if Modders did have such an 'agreement' then it should have been put in writing and made part of the contract. From what the rumour mill is saying now, Levy said Modders could go at the right price - and the 'right price' hasn't been met. Surely any sensible player (and agent) would have had the value fixed - and not left open like that?

      Still, whichever way you look at it, it's now a major problem for both the club and the player and has done damage to both reputations.

    • The ideas a good one,

      But would agents, footballers and the media want to have such a place? in some cases clubs wouldn't want it either, it would make any offer very transparent, meaning it may be more difficult for a club to demand more for certain players. I like the open, transparent aspect of it, but sadly I think it'd be like turkeys voting for Christmas (or thanks giving, as we should eat Goose at Christmas)

      8 out thus far (including Ade), (if speculation is to be believed) 6 lined up for the door, with rumours of Rose's exit also circulating, the word Exodus can be over used, but hat seems to be what we are in the middle of. Its feasible that 15 plays could be leaving the Lane in a single window!

      Although I have heard Citeh are close to paying Ade what he wants to get him out!

      Thus far 2 players in!

      Levy, AVB must have a plan in place, they must. IMO Right now, we can't compete for top 8 let alone top 4.

      JL, Luka must be sold, £40mil is unrealistic and IMO Levy is merely playing the waiting game- dangerous as there are other players Real could sign- virtually anyone they want!

      Luka has made it clear he wants to leave, why draw that out? £30mil is still a massively inflated price and the player has made it abundantly clear he wants to leave, do we really want Luka to do a Berba on us?

      What is the point in holding a player against his will? Luka's form dipped in the second half of last season, many people feel he is overrated or doesn't score enough, whilst I don't necessarily agree, I think we have more to lose by forcing him to stay and we have £35mil reasons to let him leave and wish him well.

      If Levy decided to make Luka stay, what message would that send to future targets? Niko made his feelings on this issue clear not so long ago, Levy's failure to sell Luka would only add weight to Niko's damning opinion of Levy and the way our club treats it's players.

      He's had his time, ta ta Luka, all the best.

      COYS!

    • I'm just never sure with these 'rumours' if it's down to people having to fill column inches, whether in print or on blogs etc or if they just like causing hassle.

      Yahoo is showing two different 'rumours' re Modric's transfer stall over value. One (the Sun?) shows completely different figures to the other (Mirror). Millions different.

      The problem with all of this is that it isn't 'open'. I still advocate having a central body controlling transfers. A place where offers can be lodged and seen. A place where clubs can register players that are also open to transfer and the min offer value that would be accepted (the old transfer list). I would also advocate that any offer has to go through this body - to save tapping up allegations. But then that would stop the press having a field day and selling papers.

      We don't know why AVB hasn't bought (maybe down to Levy not providing money or the right player not being available or our wage structure or the player not wanting to come to us...etc), just the fact that we have so far released Saha, Krancjar, Corluka, King, Nelsen, Pienaar, Alnwick (and the end Ade's loan term) and brought in Vertonghen and Sigurdsson.

      I'm not sure what Levy hopes to achieve with Modders either. If he ends up staying, then fine'ish (as he signed a contract to stay until what, 2016?), but aren't the buying clubs diminishing? Will RM wait, or simply buy a.n. other player? The Chavs bought 20 midfielders and no longer appear to be in the market. Utd may be - but will they wait and isn't £40m now a bit steep for them? So it seems that Modders £40m valuation (if true), is really a '...we're just not going to sell him...'. It's a really tricky situation. I just hope Modders is the professional and carries on (as he should).

    • I'm just never sure with these 'rumours' if it's down to people having to fill column inches, whether in print or on blogs etc or if they just like causing hassle.

      Yahoo is showing two different 'rumours' re Modric's transfer stall over value. One (the Sun?) shows completely different figures to the other (Mirror). Millions different.

      The problem with all of this is that it isn't 'open'. I still advocate having a central body controlling transfers. A place where offers can be lodged and seen. A place where clubs can register players that are also open to transfer and the min offer value that would be accepted (the old transfer list). I would also advocate that any offer has to go through this body - to save tapping up allegations. But then that would stop the press having a field day and selling papers.

      We don't know why AVB hasn't bought (maybe down to Levy not providing money or the right player not being available or our wage structure or the player not wanting to come to us...etc), just the fact that we have so far released Saha, Krancjar, Corluka, King, Nelsen, Pienaar, Alnwick (and the end Ade's loan term) and brought in Vertonghen and Sigurdsson.

      I'm not sure what Levy hopes to achieve with Modders either. If he ends up staying, then fine'ish (as he signed a contract to stay until what, 2016?), but aren't the buying clubs diminishing? Will RM wait, or simply buy a.n. other player? The Chavs bought 20 midfielders and no longer appear to be in the market. Utd may be - but will they wait and isn't £40m now a bit steep for them? So it seems that Modders £40m valuation (if true), is really a '...we're just not going to sell him...'. It's a really tricky situation. I just hope Modders is the professional and carries on (as he should).

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