Tottenham Hotspur Message Board
Just to stick my oar in!!
When Mancini took over at Citeh, people moaned they were defensive and how slow the build up etc. Look at them now.
I know our defence is weak but we are without Kaboul, Bae, Parker, 3 main players, so I will hold judgement on AVB on that.
The players are new to him, they are new to each other too. Soo many gone and 5 new ones arriving in the summer.
He has a different way of playing and I don't think our fitness levels are up to speed to play it yet. So maybe that's why the slow build up play from us most of the time.
Yes some iffy substitutions ( bringing on a defensive mf when we are 1 goal up ) and only ever one striker but so many injuries haven't helped.
I think the only reason Hudd is playing is because of these injuries and (AVB man-management) AVB says to the press how great he has been. Giving him a gee-up.
I think it will take some time and lots of patience from the fans to see any fruition from AVB's tactics and playing style.
But after all is said and done this is supposed to be "A long term project" whether we like it or not!!
There's the dilemma with Daffy. When Daffy scores, it's a case of - '.... told you Daffy could play alone up front....'.
Then when he doesn't score it becomes '....poor old Daffy, isolated up front..,how do you expect him to score?..'. Even though the method of play may have been changed to suit Daffy (ie Bale, Lemmon getting closer to him).
I thought the issue has been that AVB keeps playing Daffy alone up front? That has been the pattern virtually all season?
In my opinion and as stated many times before, in Daffy's case (and players of his ilk), when they score they look good. When they don't, they lend little (pun intended) to the team. Personally, I prefer players who provide a bit more.
I'm amazed the same discussion is still in full flow,
It seems many of us are making the same or very similar points to those made 2-4-8 weeks ago, whats changed? what has AVB been able to change? have we had numerous more signings? people returning from injury?
AVB is still only 5-6 months into a new job and therefore cannot be written off, we have lost key players Luka, VDV, King and depth in players like Pienaar, Corluka, Niko. We have key players injured in Dembele, Kaboul, BAE, Parker. Ade has been unfit most of the season after being colossal all last season and we have had an unsettled CM pairing due to injury.
Yes other teams have experienced change and have had injury, but not to such key players in such key positions.
NONE of us know who's responsible for what or what AVB has been told is expected, who's to blame for what in terms of squad strength is anyones guess! And it is only that..... a GUESS!
We haven't played particularly beautiful football, but we had games under HR when we were equally dire, as we did under Ramos, Jol ad infinitum.
Do not write AVB off purely because you don't like his face!
Remmah makes so many good strong points in this response,
Having been absent for some days (did ya miss me?) due to some rather more pressing matters, I have very similar opinions to Remmah on this issue.
IT IS TOO EARLY TO JUDGE THIS MAN!
He has not been given enough time/resource or support!
Hi Sfer - No my grandsons team lost 5-4 to a dodgy penalty 2 mins from time ( bloody refs lol )
I honestly believe the lack of quality in MF is the reason we look so bad, If you cant keep and pass the ball then you are always going to be under pressure, if you keep giving the ball away. It's no coincidence that we won 4 and drew 1 when Dembele was playing, because he is the only one we have who can do anything, by shielding the ball and making surges forward which gives Bale and Lennon time to support. We cant blame AVB for the lack of quality as he had no influence on the transfer dealings in and out in the summer, which I think were already going to happen before he joined. The only one what was last minute that he may of had an imput, was Dempsey, who was obviously a fall back buy when it became clear we wer'nt going to get Damaio. The one player Avb asked for it seems, was Moutino, who we agreed a club record fee for with Porto, but couldnt agree personal terms, so thats down to Levy not going the whole ten yards. We started with Daffy because we had no choice with Ade out injured, and thankfully he hit the ground running, but thats why we played one up front because there was no other option. Now Ade's fit, we have an option, and just like Harry, Avb tried him as the lone striker, so its exactly the same as last season, except as I keep sprouting on about, the quality behind the striker. I take your point about vdv, he was only good for half a game, then starts dropping deeper and deeper, but he certainly is a quality player IMO. That was one of Harry's biggest fault's, not taking him off after 50-60 minutes, and putting Daffy on and dropping Ade in behind. Avb likes playing a high back line, which in theory should keep our player's in touching distance of each other, and pressing the opposition in their half, so it can be seen as an offensive formation. Anyway, you may well be right all along and Im bleating on like an idiot, but the picture's bigger than having just any eleven on the pitch and expecting the flowing football we all love at WHL.
Daffy isn't being left isolated up front IMHO.
From what I've seen, when Daffy is the lone striker, both Bale and Lemmon seems to come inside more to get closer to him. Noticeable against Haribo, with Bale/Lemmon keener to get wide to put crosses in.
Whether Dempsey/Sig are yet up to speed in playing the 10 role that VdV played though - I don't think so as yet.
What are the change in tactics this season?
The formation is basically the same isn't it?
We played with 1 up front most of last season - ok, that was Ade.
We played Bale and Lemmon wide when they were fit.
We mainly played VdV behind the striker.
We played two of Parker/Modric/Sandro in midfield.
If AVB gets his players fit, I would guess that the changes in players would be Dempsey/Sig for VdV, Dembele for Modric, Daffy for Ade (at the moment) - but basically the same formation.
So, 'arry 4-2-2-1-1 or 4-4-1-1 and AVB plays 4-2-3-1? It all gets a bit silly really doesn't it, as no matter what formation you play, players don't actually stay exactly as planned do they? The formation though, I think shows 'intent'. AVB seems to show the same attacking 'intent' in formation, but seems to quickly adjust to a more negative formation if/once we go ahead.
As for VDV, I think his scoring record and assists show how effective he was. Ade (17 and 11)/VdV (11 and 7) notched up 28 goals and 18 EPL assists between them. Not bad. I'd be happy with Daffy/Dempsey/Sig having a similar record this season.
You blamed part of the current predicament on Levy not buyiong the players that AVB wanted. That definitely implies that Levy was not doingg his job properly which in turn says he has been poor at his job.
Do you really think that AVB accepted the job knowing that he would not be responsible for signings? If he did then more fool him. If he didn't know then he should have damn well asked surely and if he accepted anyway well - more fool him.
As you can see in my reply to remmah, I agree players should be able to just get on with it but we all know that does not always happen does it. Mostly these are the same players we had last year so you can't say "its the players fault" and exhonerate AVB. Its his job to get the players motivated, up to speed with what he expects of them and what they should be doing - he obviously didn't do that last weekend. He chooses to leave an isolated striker up front, he chooses to replace a striker and he chooses to stack the defence and MF. As far as I can tell Manure have had the same number of injuries as us but they seem to be doing ok don't they.
Again, I have said several times, I am not complaining about the number of points we have (although I think we have been lucky to get some of them) but I am complaining about the way we are playing and that is down to AVB and all of the above.
Hi remmah - I hope your Grandson won his game.
You obviously didn't watch the game. "reasonable controlled containing performance"?? It was very poor, negative stuttering and unattractive. Yes Ade can hokld the ball up better than Defoe- that is a given, hasn't stopped AVB playing Defoe up front all on his own most games so far though has it?
Ade did well, tried hard and did hold the ball up - the problem was (as it is when you only play with one striker) he could not hold the ball up long enough for any other player to help suport him so more often that not our attack fizzled out very quickly and we were back under pressure. Sandro did ok at getting his tackles in and Freidel played ok but apart from that the rest looked either that A)they couldnt be bothered or B) they were confused as to what they should be doing or C) they had been on the pi$$ the night before.
Of course Professional players should be able to adapt and perform but in my expereince, too many changes, a couple of games were the new tactics have failed and a fundamental lack of faith in the Manager telling you what he wants, leads to this type of performance.
I think 6th or 7th is very optimistic remmah. At the moment, by playing one up front (and if it is Defoe as seems to be AVB's choice) we are always short (excuse the pun) of players in the box. We seem to adopt a huge U formation...
Walker Gallas Caulker Vertonghen
Sandro Hudd A N Other
I know what you are saying about Modric but he got some stick last year for not performing as welll as he was expected to plus he got injured. Sig and Demeble were bought to fill his boots. Sig has not performmed and Dembele has been injured - the problem is I am not sure how AVB would play them even if they were available/performing. I don't miss VDV as he was unreliable and always playing at CB anyway.
Citeh did not play well and if we had the right tactics, formation and attitude we could have won that game. Yes I do blame AVB.
Why just jump on that part of my post Sfer? Levy has always been the man with the purse string!! And I didn't actually blame him for the way we are playing but on the players we have. I didn't say he was poor at his job either. You do go OTT.
What about the other bits of my post about lack of fit players and, especially, not getting the players AVB wants?
Like Mourinho and Willian for a start instead of Dempsey (who looks lost in the formations AVB uses) Siggurson even LLoris for that matter. To me Levy bought these players and not on AVB's say so.
As for "blaming Levy and leave AVB alone", how about blaming the players for their lack of attitude. They seem to turn up and expect things to happen, little fight or passion for the shirt sometimes. We went 1 up and could of had a second before half-time (from MOTD highlights don't forget). Second half we appeared to sit back again (a la ManU game) and invite citeh to break us down. Which they did eventually.
Why is it all down to AVB? Yes he's the manager but he has to work with who he has available. Why do you expect the team to perform like last season (first half of) when there's no Modric, King, VDV, Kaboul, BAE, Parker. Any team would struggle without those players available.
Oh BTW we've 17 points from 10 games, please check how many we got from our last 10 games under HR.
For goodness sake give the guy a chance.
- View More Messages