I hear what your saying about Hudds, ( if you bring him on as fresh legs, how do you tell ? lol ), but he did lay on the ball for Dempsey to score, and Siggy very nearly got the second when he hit the bar, so again I dont think they can be classed as defensive subs ( if he put Livermore and naughton, then yes ). My main point was it's often player error's costing us. I'm open minded about AVB at the moment, and obviously he has a lot to learn, but yes, I think he probably is getting the most he can out of the player's available at any given time until he get's a full squad to pick from, then I would be more critical if there was no marked improvement in our overall play. As I say, it's just my opinion's and I respect your's and you may well be proved right come the end of the season. I hope you enjoy V-Swans, and you can let us know if you see AVB calling everone back behind the ball, or whether it's the player's.