• Tottenham Hotspur Message Board

  • Jlock Jlock Nov 25, 2013 07:28 Flag

    What 6-0 to citeh and no comments....?

    I may end up being the pessimistic one here - and the optimistic one, given that it only appears to be me - but yesterday's result was just waiting to happen IMHO.
    I know this season we have been vaunted with having a mean defence - and the stats had backed that up - and conversely we had the team with the most attempts. So why be pessimistic? Mainly as from what I saw, we never really did anything with the ball. Townsend took over from Bale with a shoot on sight policy as did most of the three we played behind the striker, so Soldado had become as isolated as the other strikers we'd played for the past two seasons, and at the back, we're still lacking at both left and right back (Walker, ok going forward, but...).

    So who's fault was yesterday? Was it the team as AVB implies? Or was the team a team waiting to lose because of AVB?

    I'm also getting a bit frustrated with being told that it will take time to bed the players in. I'm lost by that, as half the players weren't/aren't even getting pitch time. Of the purchases from the summer, which have actually played on a regular basis. Soldado and Paulinho? Is that it?
    Capoue?
    Lamela?
    Chicachita?
    Chad valley?
    Eriksen?

    I could follow the argument if the 7 players had come straight into the team and disrupted any 'style' we had developed - but that just doesn't seem to be the case.

    But still, we're still there or there abouts - I just hope after AVB appearing to lay the blame on the team, he can then lift them for the Tromso and Utd games,

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    • If we take the 6nil result first, then you have to blame the players. A manager will send his team out with a system of play that they would of trained and been prepared for and supposedly all the players knowing their role. How do you legislate for the keeper gifting 2 goals with the first straight from kick off? Does the manager tell the team from kick off, play it backwards and get it to the keeper? I doubt it. Does he tell the midfielders not to try passing the ball more than 3 metres? again I doubt it. Does he tell Walker to get forward and stand about around the oppositions penalty area when he hasnt got the ball instead of getting back in defense? I wouldn't have thought so. The system should work, as our possession stats and attempts on target would suggest in most games, so is it a fact that the players we have are just not good enough as a team? Individually, I would say we have some good players, but not the right mix to make a good team. I cant see one player who can spray the ball about from midfield to wide positions to switch play quickly or a pass over a defense to get behind them. Instead, all we see, are short passes through the middle which in turn causes congestion and slow build up which allows the other team to get back and organised. Some call for a 442 formation, but IMO opinion we don't have the right sort of strikers to play it. You need a Suarez or Rooney type who can drop off and control the ball and have the skill and flair to work their way in too the box and link up with the other striker and have a teamwork mentality, and we don't have that. We ask, why do our wingers keep cutting inside? well the answer is obvious to me, we don't have an Andy Carrol type forward so what is the point off putting in crosses for short players like Defoe or Soldado?.

      • 4 Replies to john
      • Ok so lets just look at what we actually know. First, AVB had a couple of good seasons with the Man U of Portugal which many people could argue a chimp could manage. Second, he came to Chelski and upset the players, played negative football and was dumped before he could do more damage. Third, he arrives at Spurs apparently having learnt his lesson about upsetting the senior players at Chelski and immediately tries to sell fans favourite, Dawson, but then when that fails makes him Captain. Bale goes - not his fault - and he at least has a hand in the buying of several very expensive players. He then decides that the attacking style we used to some success is not what he wants. He plays one striker whose success was always with another striker and plays him on his own. He plays a right footed winger on the left and a left footed winger on the right meaning very few crosses and even fewer of any quality and because we have 2 wingers only one player is in the box against at least 2 or 3 or even 4 defenders. Those wingers come inside most of the time. The defenders know this and play accordingly. The space on the edge of the defensive box is crowded meaning shots are mainly from outside the box by players not known for scoring. The full backs are encouraged to get forward meaning the two centre halves have to go wide to cover them leaving a gap of 50 yards between them which attackers just love. AVB switches players around like chess pieces trying desperately to find success. This means players don't have the chance to "gel" resulting in lots of sideways and backward passes. The player that we have been trying to off load due to lack of effort is recalled in desperation (Adebyor) much to everybody's amazement and our oppositions amusement. Everybody knows we are short at left back but he spends all the money on even more midfielders which means, when Rose is injured, we have to play one of our best CB's at LB. When will we wake up and get rid of this idiot? Freund!! NO!

      • Last season, at this point in time, Arsenal were lying in 10th position after basically revamping the squad. The first half of the season Arsenal struggled terribly, the second half of the season Arsenal had the best run of results in the league.
        I really think Spurs fans should take a lesson from those Arsenal fans who now have egg on their faces after slating their own team and manager so vehemently.
        Players need time to settle, both to the game and to their new surroundings, some adjust much quicker than others. Hell, even Ozil is looking ordinary (ish) today!

      • J,
        I'm not so sure the blame is the players. If you look at the 'stats' on the Citeh game, the stats show roughly what we've been doing all season - apart from leaking goals.
        We have possession and we have 'attempts' but we (IMHO) don't create chances.
        The defensive stat also then (IMHO) belies what has been happening, as I think that other teams seem to find it relatively easy to create chances against us - whether they've taken them in the past is another thing. But Citeh did. They have strikers who can - and createive players who can (good job Silva wasn't playing).
        I saw a write up saying that Daws got caught out of position too much - I would agree, but that seemed to be driven by our two FBs pushing on and leaving huge gaps every time Citeh came forward.

        So I'm not sure the players are to blame, when the wrtting has been on the wall. I'm not sure that AVB is either - as I can't believe any right minded manager would have bough a Daffy playalike in Soldado - when the whole ethos of AVB seems to have the midfield scoring rather than providing.
        And I don't see that buying 5 midfielders solved any problem that we had. We now seem to have a bigger issue deciding who to play. So again, I'm not sure that was AVB. BUT AVB is the manager and if he had doubts as to the players coming in, then he should have been shouting at the top of his lungs.

        So, we still seem light at FB, striker etc after having spent £100m. So surely that is not the players fault?

        I still think though that AVB needs at least til the end of the season, but I doubt his initial attack on the fans and now his attack on the players is doing his credibility any good at all.

        And I still don't feel confident about playing the top 4 teams - I'm not sure I even fancy the game against Southampton.

      • Part Two....So to the question, is AVB to blame?. If he sends the team out with the instuctions to keep possession by passing sideways and backwards with the thought being, if we have the ball, they cant score, then yes, he has to take the blame. If he tells the full backs to bomb forward as soon as we get the ball, without telling one of the midfielders to stay back as cover, then yes he's to blame for when we are caught short at the back when a move breaks down, especially as we play a high backline. If it's the players taking it on themselves to play it off the cuff and leaving themselves wide open, then again, he is to blame because he should blast the team for not playing as he wants them to. All managers stand or fall with the players they buy in. Some can be very good and adapt very quickly, while others need a lot off time. Some can be very good, but unable to adjust physically to the the pace and strength off the PL, so again the manager must take the blame as he should do his homework and make sure they have the mentality and desire to adapt to a different culture and style. The problem for us fans is, that we don't know what is being said and done by the manager and his coaching staff and we should bear in mind that he is still very young and relatively inexperienced and needs to earn the respect of his players, and if he cant, then he must take the blame for not being strong enough. This is all IMO of course, and theres many other opinions that I could give as I'm sure all other fans could, but it seems there are more questions than answers.

    • Was talking to Harry last night---he said no way H.
      H