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.....Arsene Wenger whinging at the referee for the penalty and not shaking Dalgleish's hand after the game - he should have been kicking Eboue's arse all round the Emirates.
I sincerely hope the clown Eboue is one of those out the door in the summer.
Thanks for the link.
Fair enough re the pen, I guess we just see it slightly differently. Let me know if you ever post your point about gamesmanship/cheating - be good to see what people think.
psredpool, sorry to it took me awhile to respond to yours.
I've just discovered that Rob's post was not in this thread, my mistake.
Here's the link to the said post below:
On the issues raised in your previous reply, I agree that it wasn't an outright 'dive', but not a penalty either. My interpretation of the incident is, Lucas knew that Eboue was very close by, he slowed his movement and invited the contact..He certainly wasn't busting a gut trying to retrieve the ball which is the natural reaction one would expect from a fair and fully committed player. I think Lucas played for the penalty rather than earn it. This is where the moral issue comes in. The referee, imo, should have dealt with the incident much better by letting play go on as it was too soft a penalty to be given.
There's a lot of contacts between opposing teams players in the penalty box that don't result in a penalty being given, the Lucas incident I think should have been one of them. The referee got it wrong in my view.
Fair enough - I don't see the Lucas thing in the same way (see my post to Best below) but that's just my opinion.
I did think you were unlucky with the extra time. Ian makes a good point below about actual minutes playing time but it is very unusual for a ref to let play go on that long even with those factors (especially with the home side winning).
That said, if you think that your failure to catch Utd so far this season is down to refs or Lucas then I think you are wrong. I have lots of admiration for Mr Wenger (and would love to finish in the top three every year) but from the outside looking in I think he has a blind spot with this team. You seem to be lacking the characters who can kill a game off and handle the pressure (Newcastle, Spurs & Sunday spring to mind). If you finish 2nd or 3rd this season you need to look closer to home to fix it.
Firstly, sorry for taking so long to get back to you - been away from the laptop.
You make a really good point in your post which is probably worthy of a thread in its own right (maybe you should post it - it would be interesting to get sensible posters' views on it). I will read Robert's post in a mo as they are usually worth paying attention to.
I probably need to think more on the whether or not gamesmanship is good for the game or not. I guess on balance that it isn't.
Maybe wrongly, I draw a distinction between a dive (e.g. where the players goes down without contact or moves his leg to make contact with the defender) and where a player draws a foul (e.g. touches the ball away from an already committed defender and invites the contact). I'm not sure if that distinction is fair or right and would welcome other opinions.
Don't misunderstand me there are plenty of examples of Liverpool players taking dives (an Ngog incident against Birmingham springs to mind), so I am not blind to the fact that my own team do it. Just didn't think that was the case with Lucas on Sunday.
Whether he was protecting the ball or trying to draw contact I don't know. I strongly suspect that as soon as he felt contact, however, he was always going to fall over. Is that cheating or clever ... not sure. One thing for certain - Eboue should never have made the challenge - the ball was going nowhere.
Anyway - best of luck with the rest of the season (ps. as a Liverpool fan I would love to have all the problems associated with being 2nd ;-)).
Deeprick/anne, can you tell me what " a minimum of 8 minutes" mean ? Arsenal scored their 'penalty' by cheating, at 7 minutes of extra time. What usually happens after someone scores, is that the ref stops his watch. By the time Arsenal players celebrated, put their shirts on, and I hope the FA review Fabregas' celebration, and give him a yellow, and get back to the centre circle. All that took 4 minutes. Arsenal players, as well as the Whinger, thought that the ref would whistle the end of the game after Liverpool kixked off . They were wrong, Liverpool got a free kick, and from the resulting ball Eboue brought down Lucas. Clear penalty, and in time.
Slayer, that was actually a very good post.
Why though do you have to insist on having a sly dig at Man Utd in every post? I could, if I had the time or inclination, find scores of Arsenal players who have said the same or similar over the years. But why only use Man Utd players as examples of this attitude?
Sometimes you come out with some genuinely great football points/arguments, however you always seem to ruin it with your blinding hatred of Man Utd.
Re: psredpool comment on the Man U site:
"If you really want to find a side who have "handed" you the title, then look no further than an Arsenal team who couldn't beat us at home with no SG, two inexperienced full backs, Jay & Jonjo playing, AC, Aurelio & Carra going off injured. "
I couldn't agree more, we dropped 2 valuable points against the weakest Liverpool lineup I've seen in ages because we weren't good enough on the day, not because of Lucas' penalty incident. A serious title-winning side ought to have been out of sight before the last minute penalty incident, but the truth is we weren't good enough to take advantage of a weakened and injury-plagued Liverpool side on Sunday.
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