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  • paddockbend paddockbend Dec 7, 2007 02:21 Flag

    Guilty but not penalised

    An extraordinary meeting of the World Motor Sport Council was held in Monaco on December 6, 2007.

    The World Council found Renault F1 to be in breach of article 151c of the International Sporting Code but imposed no penalty.

    Detailed reasons for this decision will be issued on December 7, 2007, and a transcript of the proceedings will be published as soon as possible thereafter.

    ------------

    Well, consistent anyway ;-)

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    • Yes, every team will be there.
      It isn`t so much that Ferrari will be scrutinising the McLaren. The FIA technical delegates have obviously found something on which they have doubts.
      Now someone here will be much more technically minded than me but I would think that, whatever it is, has got to have a proven development record which fits with McLaren`s plan & doesn`t suddenly take on a Ferrari development.
      a) I think McLaren would have been mad to use anything knowing that their car was to be scrutinised. I don`t think they`re that stupid!
      b) I think it will be extremely hard to know for certain unless something is really blatantly a Ferrari innovation which, so far, McLaren have had nothing like.

      Personally, & here I`m going to get my knuckles wrapped by all the Mc fans I`m sure, I think it may have been better to have given McLaren a smaller monetary fine but freeze development of their 2008 car for a period of time. If they were to race the 2007 car (fully scrutinised with the various rule changes for TC etc) for the first few races then none of this hanging around/ hearings would be necessary......
      yea, I know, easy to say in hindsight.

    • I will be immensely surprised if Ferrari don't find something wrong with the McLaren.

      Every team can scrutinise every aspect of the Mclaren, and to hell with the concept of Intellectual property.

    • No great surprisethe FIA are French Renault are French and it doesn't affect Ferrari.

      • 1 Reply to CARL
      • ¿are the FIA french?When at first time Mclaren was not penalized italians said The FIA is English,when in Hungary Alonso(not Hamilton) was penalized spanish people (I too) said the FIA is english,when at second time Mclaren was so hard penalized english said it´s italian,today french and tomorrow.......
        I´m beginning to think perhaps the FIA is fair, more than all we think about.

    • In the beginning there were enthusiasts simply wanted to race cars. Then someone said hey there's money to be made here, lots of it. Very soon the pursuit of vast wealth became the only consideration and the original ideal was forgotten. Same thing happened with speeding fines!

    • The problem is that people will NEVER see the FIA as fair & unbiased. You only have to look at recent posts which say that, by giving Renault exactly the same ruling as in the first McLaren case that the FIA are being unfair! Yes, the FIA make a pigs ear of many things but the basic fact remains that most moans are only from the side (whichever it happens to be) that is on the wrong end of the FIA`s decision.
      Nothing`s going to change that.
      It`s like motorists who insist there`s nothing wrong with speeding, that speeding fines are only there to make money etc. Who`s going to convince them that possibly it may have something to do with road safety, too?

    • I have to agree danimik that often it's smarter to put intellectual arguments aside and just look at what's there before your nose. Bernie, Max, QPR, Flav etc. - and not just one isolated coincidence but a string of them. Max is saying that Ron's credibility is the problem - and he does have a very good point there, Ron has made it easy for him - but it's still a case of a cod calling a haddock smelly. The broader issue remains the credibilty of the FIA. If the governing body is not widely recognised as being unbiased, impartial and setting an example to the sport how can anyone reasonably expect the other participants to behave any differently?

    • ........and now is politicians time,Mclaren needs his 2008 car be cleared and Renault needs the same, and all teams will be consulted.......
      there will be surprises.

    • By suspicion, do you mean the car - as in the FIA checks on the Mc?
      From the FIA full decision:
      "5.7. In addition, Renault agreed to submit to an investigation by the FIA technical department to establish whether there is any evidence that Renault’s 2007 or 2008 cars incorporate any McLaren confidential information. This involved FIA technical personnel:"

    • A couple of points about that, paddock.

      I'm not biased on this issue either - I've been going to F1 races since the 60s and just enjoy the sport - I like Renault as much as McLaren (though I've always had a thing about Ferrari - just too little fair play there). And I think McLaren have behaved attrociously recently - the fuel story was ridiculous and really ruined poor Kimi's win.

      And I repeat that the only way for any suspicion of Max and Bernie being involved is to send this sort of thing to a real court. It's incredible that a bunch of people who are basically on Bernie's payroll can rule on one of the largest fines in the history of the world.

      It could well be down to the FIA - who I think have done very little to make the facts clear - but why aren't Renault being treated in the same way as McLaren now? I haven't seen any mention of them being under any suspicion and THAT isn't right.

    • for once, we have to disagree on this. the level of evidence that Renault benefitted from McLaren info is precisely as much as there is that McLaren benefitted from Ferrari info. No matter how much you want to believe that McLaren were aided by having the Ferrari document.

      In fact, it could be argued that the Renault case was more severe as only three of McLaren's staff had access to Ferrari info whereas at least seven, if not more, Renault staff had access to McLaren info.

      It's got nothing to do with who I support. It's merely about seeing justice done. Clearly FIA have it in for McLaren - why else refuse to say one way or other if the McLaren car for next season is legal or not until four weeks before the first race - and then they invite every other team to attend the meeting.

      Its not about getting FIA to do what I want - its about getting the FIA to act in an impartial and open manner, rather than a prejudiced fashion as presently. (You only have to listen to the utterings of Bernie and Max to realise what is going on. Add in that Bernie has just bought a football team with Flavia, that Bernie has openly supported Renault through this matter, etc, etc, etc, and you realise just how badly the whole thing stinks.)

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