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  • probablygraham probablygraham Jul 20, 2008 22:59 Flag

    Team orders - discussion time

    Lots of posts all over the place about team orders here so how about a discussion on the thing as a whole ?

    I have always been against banning team orders - it's always been part of the strategy in motor racing and always will be - and in my opinion should be.

    Why was the stupid ban introduced in the first place ? To stop incidents like that in Austria and the attempted photo finish in Indianapolis. The crowds booed and F1 looked extremely #$%$ (for want of a better word).

    The rule is now there and should therefeor be respected. When the rule was introduced, Bernie and Max made it very clear that they even would look at telemetry data in order to enforce it.

    So today, Heikki and Lewis should be disqualified, and the team given a big fine, IF the rule is a rule.
    However, In my opinion the rule should be dumped immediately and when (as in the incidents I metioned above) teams start taking the p*** out of the spirit of racing, they should be charged with bringing the sport into disrepute as in other sports.

    In terms of what happened today, every team would let a driver who is obviously out of position and yet so much faster than a teammate get past. In terms of the championship (drivers and constructors) it makes sense.

    I know paddock loves to defend Mr. Shoemaker :-) but in my opinion he (together with Todt and Brawn) were responsible for this ridiculous rule in the first place, along with the "you can swerve once to block somebody but not twice" rule.

    Can't wait for your bite-back, paddock :-)

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    • i agree,banning team orders and when you see one which is obviously a team order,the team in question would tell the media that there were no team orders..what a #$%$.do they really take the viewers as someone stupid...it didnt happened once in the german grand prix..look at the previous races,i think heikki let hamilton passed him more than once this year..which by looking at the race of heikki,he was much faster that lewis that time..it was pretty,pretty obvious....too obvious and they say there's is no team orders...

      • 1 Reply to jo-anne
      • hi joanne,
        i have only 1 problem with your comment, can you tell us which gp and at what time during the race did HK comprimise a race winning position to allow the slower LH past him. it is just that the only gp in the last probably 32 years that i have never seen was (and for a brit this is a killer) mr buttons only race win to date, and have never noticed this happen. i actually spent that day trying to convince the french police that i am not and never have been a drug dealer and that also applied to car thief and kidnapper, but i digress. so jo if you can just clear that up im sure many of us who think HK is under performing would gratefully check the footage to assure ourselves that team orders not under par driving were responsible,

    • Yes, what people so often ask for just isn`t possible & never actually existed, anyway.
      What we all share is a longing for better racing. The excitement we got from the old races.
      Electronics aren`t the defining factor in that, nor aero, nor any one thing. The list of problem areas goes beyond the cars to tracks, funding, governance & regulations.
      As fans we can`t even agree on what F1 should be!
      It`s not an easy problem to solve.

    • Yes, of course. For all the science, the perfect balance between man and machine is an indefinable thing; and I think also that nostalgia helps compress all the good moments into one glorious memory, editing out all the dull races, and all the times the winner won by several minutes over the rest of the field. I've only been watching seriously since 1995/6, and that was enough to hook me.

    • Yes, of course. For all the science, the perfect balance between man and machine is an indefinable thing; and I think also that nostalgia helps compress all the good moments into one glorious memory, editing out all the dull races, and all the times the winner won by several minutes over the rest of the field. I've only been watching seriously since 1995/6, and that was enough to hook me.

    • Even back then the cars had a great deal to do with the racing.
      The only way to make the drivers the only difference, & truly get the man v. man thing, is in a single make series where the cars are totally identical. Even then, the minute individual teams are allowed to decide strategy or tinker with set-up, balance or even have a pitstops it stops being all about the driver.

      It`s rather like horse-racing. You have top jockeys but they need a good racehorse which in turn depends upon a good trainer, stable lad etc.

    • I agree with that much - for it to be properly riveting, it needs to be man vs. man (or woman), rather than technical department vs. technical department. Brave nutters hanging it out by the seat of their pants at 200mph - and fingers crossed next will will bring some of that back.

    • Yes, I agree, though am disappointingly sober. At worst there were sensible team tactics and we had plenty of overtaking and a good race.

    • In vino veritas ;-)

      That`s exactly my point, mike.

    • i hic have to say that most people i know dont bother watching any more.
      for instance big (6ft 7inch) phil and i watched our first gp together 36 /37 years ago. year before last he decided he had more interesting ways to bore himself stupid , aint seen a race since doubt if he ever will again, aint what he calls racing any more and that is sad,

    • hello everybody peeps. i have just worked my way through this board (very difficult)now i is mas borracho, which sounds cool but means very drunk.
      so like all gobby drunk #$%$ i pose the question did the best car and driver combination on the day win, ? and like all gobby drunken #$%$ i state the answer YES. so no one cheated , to the detrement of the sport . common sense is sometimes much more important than the rule book ,the only way that a silver car was going to win was the way that it happened ,no problem, RD may or maynot have said or done something that meant his car won. well seems simple to me but then you would not want me to drive your kids home at the moment.

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