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  • Petrus Petrus Jul 22, 2008 05:57 Flag

    Driver Tom To Race Control

    In a time of space age technology F1 has taken a step back in time this year by banning Traction Control. Next season's new regulations which include the return of slicks and the removal of curly bits are designed to further increase exciting racing and competition of the kind amply demonstrated by the Arnoux/Villeneuve epic confrontation in the 1979 French GP (see video posted by pb in the recent "Hate LH" thread). One purpose of these changes is to put control of the race car back firmly in the hands of the drivers and as Mike referred to in the same "Hate LH" thread the racing as displayed by messieurs Arnoux and Gilleneuve is how the great drivers of the past performed - no nancy boys and no whinging there. Fans today, as instanced on these very threads also seem more prone to whining than their predecessors, of which the 'team orders/radio' controversy is just the latest episode. Bearing all these points in mind would not removal of the driver's in-car radio contact with the pitwall (another step back in time) perhaps not also help move F1 forward into another golden era. With no radio for advice drivers would (apart from the old pitwall signalling system) have no management guidance while racing and would thus have to rely on their own skill and race judgement. Specific safety messages could still be relayed by radio to all drivers by a stewards' radio connection and/or by the incar display. What do you think, should 'Driver Tom be left racing in his tin car' with no connection to race control? It worked in 1969.

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    • The issue is about drivers driving the cars and making their own decisions regarding operating the controls and how and when. Team orders are not the issue as such, they've always existed, always will and can be conveyed once per lap by the pit-board, as can other instructions relating to telemetry or whatever. Driver feels something needs attention, let him pit. I for one don't expect gear levers and clutches nor historic car racing (you are a mischievous girl pb and know that well) but whatever buttons, levers, paddles, switches or twitches do control the car's primary functions then I want the driver controlling them and without radio instructions as to how and when to use what. That means no radio. Otherwise we may as well be watching a life-size scalextric where driver safety would not be an issue. I only mentioned the safety thing becauase, much as I agree with sid's assessments (and mike's), I realised that the pc correct litigationists must be satisfied. So have the radio in testing and practice but only as a 'fire escape' in racing and only linked via stewards to all teams/cars. Modern and developing technology is also not an issue, let them innovate and invent but disallow technology which detracts from driver-controlled, competitive and spectacular racing. 'Dirty air' technology for example is being removed and radio advice to drivers should also go but safety technology such as construction materials, the driver pod and anti-fire measures obviously stay and can progress infinitely. I've said before that the improvements in safety can potentialy facilitate bucket loads of power development technologies including the return of turbo-charging (especially with engine development frozen) and others. So as stated it's not a case of vintage car racing, it's a case of selecting, mixing and matching the best technologies, those which give competition and spectacle in as safe an environment as possible. But there will be danger Adam mon enfant, participants and spectators quite legitimately expect that - unless of course the FIA introduce a rule to the contrary!

      • 3 Replies to Petrus
      • Surely the issue - bottom line - is better racing. We want real racing with overtaking etc. possible. The radio really doesn`t make much difference there, I think.
        If we could watch some really great races then we wouldn`t all be moaning, Petrus.

      • Of course there will always risk and danger associated with driving around a narrow circuit at ridiculous speeds, and that's the way it should be - my point was, though, in reply to sid's post about removing danger being the same as sanitising the sport. Yes, if the cars were slowed and the tracks ruined, as many have been, then that would be sanitising it - but the debate was in relation to certain technological advancements, such as the radio. My argument was that any danger outside of the inherent danger of driving quickly has no place in the sport, and there's no reason to consider any "add-on" safety measures (ie. those not directly involving the spectacle of racing fast cars) as undesirable. If the radio does happen to make racing safer, then it should be retained for that reason - opening the drivers to greater risk of serious injury by not having it isn't improving the spectacle, and nor should racing be thought of as better because it is arbitrarily more dangerous.

      • i wish that i had written it so well. yes that is what i meant.well near as damn it.

    • You're right, I should have been clearer in what I meant. It wasn't an accusation, I was just trying to refute the logic of:

      "to sanitize the sport and make it less dangerous is dumbing down what the sport is all about"

      What I should have said was that if one watches it for the danger, one is watching for the wrong reasons. The risk is all part of it, but the actual *danger* shouldn't be, and reducing the driver safety (or wilfully neglecting to follow through improvements of driver safety) shouldn't be seen as a good way forward; that is, I don't believe making it less dangerous should be seen as the same thing as sanitising it - we're watching it for the racing and the speed, not the inherent danger. If one is watching it for the danger, as I say, one is not a true racing fan.

      "The main thing this thread has taught me is that there a lot of people out there who really hate most things about modern F1, and probably shouldn't be watching."

      I was being conversational, which maybe didn't come across - but when some people can't find anything good to say about any aspect of modern F1... that's entirely up to them, but you do start to wonder whether their time might not be better spent...

    • How did you manage to deduce that I watch F1 for the possible death and carnage that 'could' happen just by reading a post, Adam?
      Isn't that rather ignorant, especially, when you consider that nobody has asked that the sport be made any more dangerous, and removing a radio certainly can't be construed as saying such. Or at least, I wouldn't have thought so.
      Also,........
      "The main thing this thread has taught me is that there a lot of people out there who really hate most things about modern F1, and probably shouldn't be watching."
      Arrogance personified.
      9 people, not including the thread starter, have posted within this thread, and two people have shared differing views as to yourself, yet you say,........'"The main thing this thread has taught me is that there a lot of people out there who really hate most things about modern F1, and probably shouldn't be watching.'
      Well, to be perfectly honest, the thread has taught, I imagine, a lot of people that you are either prone to exaggeration, or that you haven't actually read what was written, but moreso, that you have read what you thought was written.
      No malice intended, but at least be straightforward and say what you mean, and direct it at the person as opposed to going around the houses.
      Thats how arguements start.

    • yeah, i'd say leave the radios in.

      did anyone hear the renault engineer sarcastically telling alonso to "come on" last weekend? hilarious!

      so what if formula one is a team sport now?

      there's two options for getting rid of team orders (presuming that without a radio they'd find another way to communicate):

      - get rid of the team, let the driver do everything from changing the tyres to managing sponsership;

      - impose a one car per team rule

      neither sounds particularly attractive to me.

      let technology go, i say, in 10 years i want F1 to be less like indycar, and more like wipEout lol!!!!

    • It would be much easier to leave the radio in & take away the ridiculous & unworkable team order rule :o)

    • lol - I think we would all do as mrs mike. It`s natural nowadays in a culture of blame.
      We tend to see things from a different perspective if it doesn`t involve someone we know.

    • Very different.

      If I`ve kept up with any changes the front & rear wheels are of different dimensions, front wing wider & lower, rear wing higher & narrower, diffuser larger, no winglets, chimneys etc........ the list goes on & on.
      The front wingl is driver adjustable as far as I know. It`s a bit hard to keep up with some of the changes as the TWG & OWG don`t get a great deal of coverage.

      Apparently Patrick Head said the front wing looked ridiculous (it almost comes to the outside of the wheels) & that we`d probably end up with a lot more front wings being lost.

      From what I can make out the cars will be more like Formula Nippon or IRL..

    • Totally agree with you Adam. Yes motor racing is dangerous but it is also very skilfull and I certainly don't watch to see who can avoid wrapping himself round a barrier. To see a driver push the car to the limit and still keep it under control is the thrill of the sport. I do not watch BTCC or WTCC as to me they appear no more than a stock car race and at those speeds they are outright dangerous. That form of "racing" holds no attraction for me.

    • right im happy that we have common ground ,while waiting for youir last post i hoovered the bedrooms , but this is benidorm and in spain many of us are into the weekend,(its 12.38) some of the bars have been open 6 1/2 hours and the call of a frozen glass full of newcastle brown is getting very loud, nice banter but im off to open the weekend. have a good one yourself.

    • Quite, I totally agree, the complain-about-everything brigade are annoying. It doesn't matter what happened in the race, there'll always be something to whine about. It's no longer about "congratulations, the best man won" - it's about finding ways to blame him for doing something untoward or to accuse him of cheating. Not with everyone, of course, but there is a minority who likes a good gripe.

      But I don't think this has anything to do with modern racing, I think this has everything to do with modern "victim culture" people and internet boards in general.

      There is a balance to be found with technology. Part of the appeal of Formula 1 cars for many people is that they're practically spaceships. Which is fine. Everything has its day, and the era of petrol-filled missiles with nothing but a steering wheel, three pedals and a gear stick is over, for better or for worse. The real problem lies in Formula 1 cars drifting towards being remote-controlled spaceships that are too finely tuned to even race each other. But this is a problem I feel is being addressed next year, and I think it's one of those "let's wait and see" things.

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