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  • OldBill OldBill Nov 2, 2009 09:37 Flag

    RAFA "I DON'T HAVE TO WIN TROPHIES AT ANFIELD"

    1). Tell me it is not a disgraceful statement to make - tell me another 'top 4' manager that would make it - never mind a Liverpool manager.

    2). Can you believe who is and who is not fit anymore at Liverpool - we seem to get excuses wheeled out who is actually available anymore - his team selections are so random.

    3). The continual excuse about poor old Rafa not being able to sign the players he wants : where is the evidence for this.
    Was Crouch not better than Voronin
    Was Pennant not better than Babel
    Was Keane not better than N'Gog (although I would have preffered him to be playing than Voronin yesterday).
    I could go on....

    4). Does he or his scouting network not have the 'nouse' to pick up good quality players at less than top wack prices - does he not know more than the tabloids on who and who isn't a good player ?

    5). He has been there for 5 years - is it not a reasonable assumption tho make that if he had signed a 'good' 17 year old back at the beggining of his tenure we'd now have a crop of excellent 23 year olds pushing for the 1st team ?

    I know you are a loyal supporter of Benitez, but the time to cut your losses has to come soon - the price of buying Benitez off is no more than 10% of what he has spent on players.

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    • Thing is with Pennant, Crouch.. at the time their was a lot of rotation both players wanted 1st team football in every game.

      Rafa then chsnged his tactics to have 1 striker up by himself so Crouch wasn't happy to be left on the bench just in case Torres was injured / rested.. On occasion they played as a duo and i thought they were very effective.

      Pennant yes probably was better than Babel as a winger.

      Babel was originally bought as a striker as was Kuyt. Then they both became wingers cos we had no proper wingers. I share your point on Pennant especially maybe we should've kept him..

      • 1 Reply to LFC_Armchair_Supporter
      • I posted the same interview twice on your board and the only one who seems to agree with Rafa is his very own brown nose Dave Steer, no offence mate but really your own fans telling you that enough is enough and he can't be defended after this statement. SAF always tells the press and fans that at the very least he wants the PL and the rest are a bonus, can you imagine if he says to the press that he has no need to win trophies at Old Trafford to keep his job. Not only would the press have him but the board and the fans would tell him that he has got that wrong and he HAS TO WIN TROPHIES.

        Shanks would be turrning in his grave if he could see this from Rafa, Remember first is everything and second is nowhere.

    • Re; Q5: He did sign Paul Anderson & Jack Hobbs early on in his time at the club. They were both said to be quality young players but anderson got sold and hobbs was overlooked for the greek bloke.

      Not all young players make it but we have had none in his time. Babel is a classic example, i had seen him for Ajax & holland previous to him signing and he looked good but he just looks a bad player now, not worth 12 million by a long shot.

      • 1 Reply to arnoldlayne
      • arnold, i too was expecting to see something from these two by now, but they obviously havent been good enough to make the grade. The same goes for adam hamill who i think is now at barnsley.

        But with regards to hobbs, i would rather see him than the greek bloke, and therefore save the 1-2 mill that was spent on him, not to mention his wages. Surely Hobbs' wages would have been nowhere near greekys.

    • Bill that is a lot of questions, so I suppose someone is going to have a go at me for writing long posts if I try to answer them. But here goes:

      1 - Statement is not defensible, simple as that. My only assumption is that quotes were taken out of context and he was saying that silverware is not the only measure of progress. But I've not seen the full transcript (if anyone has it I'd like to see it), and not going to make excuses on that front.

      2 - I assume your making a claim that the injury problems are not real? It’s a heck of a charge, as its not just Rafa your going after, but the integrity of our team Doc (who's been with us much longer than Rafa), the full medical team, the coaches, and the integrity of some of our top players.

      3 - Lets take each one at a time:

      i) Crouch: Yes better than Voronin, but not getting regular starts at Spurs, and is currently second fiddle to Heskey in the England set up, so not sure he'd do us that much good any more. But more importantly he wanted out; it was not Rafa's choice to sell him. But faced with an unhappy player, he cashed in which helped pay for Riera, who I would rate a better player.

      ii) Pennant vs. Babel, now that is an interesting one. Personally I always rated Pennant. He was not top draw, but was very lively. For me his biggest problem was he was one dimensional, and not much of a threat to cut inside for a shot, but instead always wanted to cross it. Babel is the opposite. So I don't know who is better, but a year ago I would have also picked Babel. Pennant was what he was, and not getting any better, while Babel at least had the potential for something more, even if he's yet to realize that potential.

      iii) Keane vs N'Gog. Guessing you did not see the highlights of the Spurs match? N'Gog is a 19 year old who may not get any better than he is now, but could with experience become a very good player. Keane is supposed to be a seasoned professional who can deliver right now. He did not deliver for us over half a season last season, and lets be frank is not delivering for Spurs either.

      4 - Riena, Alonso, Garcia, Riera, Masch, Kuyt, Skrtel, Agger, & Yossi. All I believe sub 20M, some very much under that mark. All very good players for us I'd argue, and even those who've moved on provided us with a sizable profit. So I'd say while scouting can always improve, the above would suggest it’s not broken.

      5 - This is something he failed in, or at least has so far. But I don't think it’s from a lack of trying, and if your honest think you'll admit what you’re asking for is not exactly easy. I mean, how many kids has Wenger gone through, and how long has it taken him?

      • 3 Replies to dsteer_lfc_68
      • Just want to add to one of your points dsteer. The team doctor. This man is one the best around. Two incidents spring to mind. The first is cisse vs blackburn where he is credited with saving cisse from having if leg amputated due to his quick work on and off the pitch in dealing with the leg break. Apparenty the doctors in the hopsital said that if it was for him cisse wouldn't have a leg left. Secondly, i believe alan smith also credits him with helping to save his leg also when he dislocated his ankle (i think it was dislocation?)

        If this man says someone is injured, then i believe him!

      • Good answers/discussion...

        The one I'll debate is no 2).

        It's not a case of accusing people of having no integrity (although if you want to class it as that then I have no problem) - I do accuse him of maintaining his own interests above the club/supporters.

        He knows full well if he can scrape us through the league rounds of the CL - he can generate a bit of cash to keep the Yanks happy & a bit of superficial euphoria (aka the 'Istanbul' effect) to placate some of the supporters.

        To be honest I & no one else knows who is ill/injured and the team selection .v. Fulham was all to reminicent of the team selection made .v. Reading a couple of years ago - he needed a result in Europe to save his skin then - and it just so happens we need a result on Wednesday too.

      • Quote from Dave Steer " Statement is not defensible, simple as that. My only assumption is that quotes were taken out of context and he was saying that silverware is not the only measure of progress. But I've not seen the full transcript (if anyone has it I'd like to see it), and not going to make excuses on that front."

        Ok well take your pick from this lot and if they have ALL misquoted him no doubt his lawyer will be busy getting the papers served as he sues the lot of them and me included.

        http://www.skysports.com/google/search_results/1,20207,cmFmYSBiZW5pdGV6IEkgZG9uJ3QgaGF2ZSB0byB3aW4gdHJvcGhpZXNfMTEyLjE0Mi4xMzYuMjUy,00.html?skystart=0&skyadpage=1

        Happy reading Dave and after this I will ask you to answer me one question, Why is it you are the only one defending Rafa whilst avoiding all your fellow Liverpools fans questions about Rafa.PS note I am not name calling because you may cry again.