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  • Jason Jason Oct 24, 2010 08:59 Flag

    Roy's Blueprint for Winning v Blackburn

    I can't take anymore of his ridiculous comments. If he has us up in the top 3 and in contention for things, he could say whatever he wanted, but this just stinks:

    "What I am hoping for is a little bit of luck so the result goes our way - whether we play well or we play badly - and that we give ourselves a bit of breathing space in order to start rebuilding and try to move up the table rather than constantly finding ourselves marooned at the wrong end."

    So, basically he's stating beforehand that it's ok to underperform, and in fact play poorly, possibly get a lucky win from an own goal or a deflection and that will be a great result and send this team flying to the top! He sounds like he's medicated. And, to think just 1 win is going to immediately give us tremendous breathing room is hardly the target to strive for, we're still -6 in goal differential, so unless they plan on winning 8-0, a win is expected and a good result nothing more.

    When Roy gets us on a 4-5 game unbeaten streak then he can talk about luck and breathing room, but I can't even take this stuff with a grain of salt anymore... even Rafa with his facts sheets never sounded so ludicrous

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    • But he did come out & criticize the club & manager publicly on more than one occasion alienating himself with the fans , really there was no way back for him after that .

      Also we don't know how difficult he is to work with behind the scenes or how much he was trying to engineer yet another move for himself , to date he has been here , there & everywhere .

      Fair weather players like that we dont need & as a rule foreign players are only here to pick up a pay check & get their new hair do's in the news papers , although in fairness most of the Spanish lads we had under Rafa showed some grit .

      Since the Premier League was formed I cant think of a good foreign player we had apart from Torres & Hypia & both have had bad spells where a less media friendly home nations players would of trumped them with the consistency of their performances if they lacked any in flamboyance which I do not believe they do .

      Yes we have had Rise , Hamman Alonso & have Skrtel & Agger & probably one or two others I'm forgetting but the point remains valid , If we devoted the same amount of time & patience with your granny even she would string a few decent performances together .

      Home grown talent is suffering to accommodate if not averagely talented foreigners definitely average performing foreigners .

    • Riera should have never been sold by Hodgson. It's one thing if he had a bust up with Rafa and he left him out of the squad, but once Rafa left, he should have been given a clean slate and every chance to prove himself.

      He wasn't even given any minutes in our pre-season friendlies if my memory serves correct, which is bad on Roy considering our only other left wing threat is Jovanvic, who normally plays or played left forward.

      Riera was nothing spectacular, but in 2008 he was a huge part of the team, provided numerous crosses into the box, scored a few goals and actually got past his man pretty regularly for a player of his size. Not to mention he started and scored goals for the Spanish national team, AND was one of Torres best friends... (check youtube, there's a hilarious video of Torres and Riera fighting over a piece of bread at training)

      Team chemistry can never be underestimated IMO, it can be stronger than individual talent and make a team stronger as a whole.

    • In my opinion Riera like the 21 year old Insua was scapegoated by the boo boys & pseudo fans .

      He is a quality player thats big & strong , brave in the air with a good shot & consistent delivery , he can also turn a game with a clever deft touch or flick .

      However I think we would be better with Downing or Gamst Pederson because of Rieras undeserved unpopularity .

    • In a 4 4 1 1 Cole would be more suited to playing behind Torres than G but dont forget Cole has won numerous leagues playing on the wing in 4 1 4 1 & 4 3 3 modifications .

      On top of that G & Torres are a proven 50 + goal partnership playing the 4 2 3 1 formation & using it on Sunday G bossed the game again & Torres both scored & looked like trouble again .

      Fact is Hodgson is out of his depth , he would need a complete squad overhaul & then 2 or 3 years minimum to place a squad together of playing his systems before we could hope to challenge for silverware & none of our senior internationals respect him so I cant see how that would change after 2 or 3 years blundering along happy with mid table .

    • That's probably been one of the main reasons for such a slow and disorganized start, along with Roy not being ambitious, but rather over cautious. Rafa used the formation to be cautious as well, but he knew how to use it, and when it was effective it allows for proper attack and counter attack if the front 4 players are given license to go forward, which I suspect Roy has not allowed them to.

      The difference in pace, flow of the game, passing and movement in the Blackburn match was 1000x drastically different than all our other matches, when it seemed it's just been Torres running around all by himself with Gerrard moving forward and trying to give him the ball every time, which for the most novice of manager's is easily negated.

      Last week we saw countless numbers of times where, Cole, Maxi, Gerrard, Meireles and Torres were all in the box with exellent movement and nice touch passing, also Lucas was actually distributing the ball forward rather than side to side or backwards. So, this suggests to me that Roy perhaps finally understood what the 4-2-3-1 is all about, or stopped being such an over cautious man.

      Torres can create nightmares for any CB duo in the league, but if there's nobody else around him, or only balls coming in centrally from Stevie we're a piece of cake..

      On a side note, as I've mentioned I'm a fan of the 4-4-1-1 and I thought with the addition of Cole that suits us best, so I wonder if Riera, who's nothing special, would not have been sold without being given a chance, how would we fare:
      pepe
      back 4
      maxi meireles gerrard riera
      cole
      Torres

    • Jason ,

      Woy never played a 4 2 3 1 before he came to Liverpool.

      Benitez introduced that formation to these shores & since then Man City with a wealth of forwards to accommodate (At least on a few occasions last season) & a few lesser lights with an abundance of average midfielders & lack of quality strikers have adopted it .

      A 4 2 3 1 is a hybrid of the old Brazilian 4 2 4 & a 4 5 1 formation .

      Woy plays a 4 4 2 as default but sometimes modifys that to a 4 4 1 1 & sometimes a 4 1 4 1 which is another variation of the 4 5 1 formation .

      Again ,

      He has never played a 4 2 3 1 , strictly a Spanish flavored Formation , anywhere at anytime before he came to Liverpool & anyone that trys to tell you different is talking out of their asshole *Cough* WeeMan *Cough* in the hope of being noticed .

    • I'm certainly not a Roy embassador, and in fact the original post I made to start this thread is that I'm sick and tired of his drab, low abitious and everything is "ok" type statements. It's totally contradictory to everything positive he did achieve in the summer and early stages of Europa, when I can't deny I thought he was doing a great job.

      I wanted to wait after the first 5 games because we did not have most of our world cup stars fully training together, Torres wasn't fit, Mascherano disrupted everything, and to start any season vs Arsenal, Man City, Man United, Birmingham and Wba wasn't the easiest, especially considering how tough BHC are at home, and the early season spectacular form of WBA, they've beaten Arsenal and drawn United, so pathetically, it looks a good win for us. Since then, I've had nothing positive to say about him or his methods.

      He's almost completely tried to copy what Rafa did, and I don't remember him every playing 4-2-3-1 at Fulham except in European competitions because that is a very European tactical formation used by Jose, Rafa, Van Gaal etc etc, but he had players all over the place and being mis used.

      I for one think 4-4-1-1 is our best formation and suits the personnel we had brought in the best, but obviously I'm not the manager, and the 4-2-3-1 worked fairly well vs Blackburn and the players in the side all performed and adapted very well in what should have been an emphatic victory.

      This being said, if we revert back to our earlier form and drop the ball @ Reebok than I think Roy has to go. There's no excuses anymore after that terrific effort/performance, a full week of training with an almost 100% fit squad, and no tournaments, Europe or internationals to disrupt anything. Furthermore, as much as we all dislike it, publicly the new owners are backing him, whether that's the case behind closed doors remains to be seen, but while it is what it is, we should at least think positive on the heels of Rovers and go to Bolton with confidence to take another 3 points and start piling up some goals for it.

      There's no other way to look at it, until changes are made by the only people who have a say in the matter... I'd rather Roy prove me wrong and have us sitting top 6 come January than him prove me right and have us 18th after this weekend and get fired... I think most would agree with that on common sense..

    • Jason I hear what you're saying about Hodgson. I remember the optimism that washed all over LFC when Joe Cole was brought in. At that point, no one had done any serious investigation into his managerial record and the rest of the supporters were prepared to go with the flow. I think Hodgson coasted on this to an extent and, if what I hear is correct, Gerrard & Carragher were very happy with an English manager given that they may have been instrumental in getting rid of Rafa.

      Then the game against Man City but I was still prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt - given that there was all the furore about Mascherano not turning up for the game.

      Then it just started to get worse & worse. Hodgson didn't help matters with increasingly bizarre statements where he seemed to trade on his media contacts & friends in the League Managers' Association. He didn't help by not criticising Ferguson for his comments about Torres or for himself criticising the supporters for demonstrating against the rednecks.

      It's really with the above in mind - as well as noting that we played in a manner similar to the way we did under Rafa for the first 75 mins & then reverted to 4-4-2 & were hanging on for the win - that I'm not sure he is the man to take us forward to Xmas, never mind the summer. We need to get back to a top 4 finish & right now I wouldn't trust him with the cash for my shopping, never mind a bumper truck of cash for the January signings.

    • I think perhaps Roy's biggest fault, whether he's out of his depth or not, was he came in and tried to re-invent the wheel while inheriting a largely intact side with some improved signings and much classier players.

      I don't think the squad Rafa left was so bad as people think, and in fact it was weakened with the loan deals of Aquilani, Insua and sale of Riera who could have been given another lease on life. Unfortunately it was too late to save Yossi, I can only imagine how much better things would be with him assuming he never got hurt, playing on the right wing... sigh.

      Roy to his credit, did a very good job rejuvenating and bringing life and energy to the players who became "disenchanted" and brought them all back enthused, but tried to impose different things, when maybe just a tweak here and there was needed.

      Nonethless, we have a chance to get 2 on the bounce, but like I said I am by no means overlooking Bolton at the Reebok, they are solid. I know in years past this was an afterthought for LFC and many clubs, but they've cause many top sides trouble this season so that holds no water. Blackburn was 1, now keep the new energy going..back to basics, press high up, pass and move, shots on target, crosses in the box, break up play in the midfield and play happier and more freely.. That was the MO @ Fulham..

    • I think perhaps Roy's biggest fault, whether he's out of his depth or not, was he came in and tried to re-invent the wheel while inheriting a largely intact side with some improved signings and much classier players.

      I don't think the squad Rafa left was so bad as people think, and in fact it was weakened with the loan deals of Aquilani, Insua and sale of Riera who could have been given another lease on life. Unfortunately it was too late to save Yossi, I can only imagine how much better things would be with him assuming he never got hurt, playing on the right wing... sigh.

      Roy to his credit, did a very good job rejuvenating and bringing life and energy to the players who became "disenchanted" and brought them all back enthused, but tried to impose different things, when maybe just a tweak here and there was needed.

      Nonethless, we have a chance to get 2 on the bounce, but like I said I am by no means overlooking Bolton at the Reebok, they are solid. I know in years past this was an afterthought for LFC and many clubs, but they've cause many top sides trouble this season so that holds no water. Blackburn was 1, now keep the new energy going..back to basics, press high up, pass and move, shots on target, crosses in the box, break up play in the midfield and play happier and more freely.. That was the MO @ Fulham..

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