Liverpool Message Board
Right back in there for Champions league contention after that well needed result! Now the ultimate test and I think its more like The Premier league vs Dubai!
If they are going to lose anywhere then its going to be at Anfield, which is exactly what will happen! Surely everyone deserves to keep the place from Sunday and I have to add, Maxi and Bellamy looked electric in the first half, they both have terrific movement.
Subs: Doni, Carragher, Gerrard, Kelly, Henderson, Downing, Carroll
I've heard a few people suggesting that it might be time to try Kelly at right back and move Johnson up to midfield. This is not a new suggestion, could this be the right time to try it as it gives us the opportunity to have another CB on the field when under pressure.
Which can easily switch to
Or, when protecting a slender lead at 88mins
Don't feel guilty about posting your opinion. There is a serious debate to to had about Carra. At some point he is going to reach a point where he could be a liability to the team and we should not allow sentiment cloud that discussion. I do think that discussion is premature but it will come one day.
I felt a bit guilty after putting his mistakes down in writing but I have felt almost every game I have watched him in this season that he is an accident waiting to happen in a much milder fashion to Soto last season. Its as if opposition are very aware of him at the moment and seem to target his weaknesses. He has been nothing but a legend for us and will carry on to be important over the next season or 2 but, right now, for me hes quite a distance of Skrtel or Agger.
I remember about 3-4 seasons ago, hoping they would be our long term defensive pairing but it didnt look likely to happen after a mixture of Skrtels bad form and Aggers terrible injury record. They look as good a pair as anything in the world right now. I hope this isnt a damning comment!
So basically your blaming Carra for four goals to show poor form. Personally I'd take two of those away I did not think the penalty at Stoke was his fault and surely you have to blame Johnson as much for the collision as Carra.
But I think you could find a guilty party for each of the 11 goals if you want to play the blame game but it would be harder to count the the number of goals not scored due to a solid defense that Carra has been a part of.
I'm not saying he should start at the weekend but I think that is because of others good form not Carras bad form
Here is a couple of examples of Carraghers poor form so far this season and to be fair, these are just the ones he (and then we) has been punished for:
vs Bolton, Carragher caught in possesion by Klasnic for consolation
vs Stoke, Carragher pulls down Walters for decisive penalty
vs Brighton, Carragher fouls Vicente for Brighton penalty
vs Norwich, Collided with Johnson and allowed Holt to nod past a stranded Reina
I have always been Carra's biggest supporter and was defending him to the hilt on here last season but he looks to have dropped another yard again. It's not to say he is finished, not at all, but I think he has to earn his way back into the side and I cant fault Enrique, Johnno, Skrts or Agger over the last 3 matches. He looks terrified against fleet footed players, even the Odemwingies of the league have got his number! The guy will put his body on the line and put his face into the sole of a boot to keep the ball out of the net but he has to step it up a gear!
We have to go absolutely full whack against City, its everything to us. Sitting 9 points of the lead isnt even that bad with our December fixtures but 15, well, thats not great! I dont expect us to win the league but we dont want Spurs and United getting 7 and 8 point gaps on us!
I understand wanting to make sure that both Agger and Skrtel play as they are both in top form, however I'm not sure its accurate that Jamie should be dropped because of poor form. He's featured in 9 of our 12 league games so far this season (only Skrtel has featured in more) during which we've now achieved the best defensive record in the league conceding only 11 goals (joint lowest along with City and Newcastle). The theme that we've let in sloppy goals which is why we are not further up the table continues, but the numbers just don't prove that out.
However your last point does get me thinking. I think the league game is much more important than the cup fixture against Chelsea. However said that, even assuming Chelsea will not play its best 11 against us next Tuesday (they will most likely start Torres) it would still be nice to be able to start at least one senior center back along side Coates so we can keep things competitive.
I understand your thinking, we have done it before under Kenny and it worked for Napoli. We are, however, better then Napoli, they have a very good front 3 but at times it was like they had 7 defenders and in the last 15 minutes maybe 10!
We have to go 4 across the back with no Jamie. He isnt done yet but doesnt deserve to be in the side on form, he will get a good chance at the bridge on tuesday.
I'm not sure if playing 5 at the back is allowed or not at home, but I suspect so long as it works almost anything goes. But maybe a more palatable way to look at it is not a line of 5 defenders, but 3 center backs and 2 wingbacks.
To be honest it was just a bit of creative thinking on my part and not necessarily what I think will or should be deployed on Sunday. But the thinking was how do you stay compact and organized while defending, which is where the 3 center backs and the solid midfield of Lucas and Adam come in, and still have the freedom to utilize the space I think City will concede to us on the flank, hence the use of wing backs.
I tend to agree with you Aurelio. I had agreed with Dave more or less on the premise that what he did at the weekend, and last year with lesser parts when we hit top form, was extremely creative in formation and selections causing opposition trouble to cope for what they expected vs what we did..
Back 4 - 0.0changes. 1 goal conceeded in 3 and by far the most athletic 4 we could play and one that withstood several waves of fast paced attack at the weekend, similar to what City can do, and while Carra will always get rave reviews for his vision, organization and "reading the game", as long as Pepe is back there, I'm convinced Skrtel/Agger are much better equipped to go against strong, big and quick forwards in Dzeko/Balotelli, plus that other guy Aguero..
In regards to Carroll, I think alot of us recall last year vs City and we hold that game as very sentimental but as Kenny would say, "that's a wee bit romantic" and not likely to replicate itself. I think head over heart has to prevail here, and if that side, which meshed so well at the weekend with passing, moving, pressing and high tempo are fit and continue their form, perhaps only bringing in Downing, should be left to continue and bring the impetus to them, rather than the other way around.
One thing I noticed today, that if Kenny was undoubtedly watching, the speed and tempo that Napoli used to pull City apart. Cavani is a very large target ala Carroll, however he was never targeted back to goal for long balls to nod down or flick on, and only the recipient of diagonals and plays along the floor, along with Hamsik and Lavezzi at pace. With how we played at the weekend and a 2nd week in a row of that, I think that would be our best approach, as City were caught out countless times today and lucky not to lose 4-1 or 5-1, and this is with a 3-4-2-1 system... all press, pass, move and create! Sounds like the Kenny you all knew in his hayday!
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