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  • Hobsey Hobsey Nov 21, 2011 10:29 Flag

    Team to face Man City?

    Right back in there for Champions league contention after that well needed result! Now the ultimate test and I think its more like The Premier league vs Dubai!
    If they are going to lose anywhere then its going to be at Anfield, which is exactly what will happen! Surely everyone deserves to keep the place from Sunday and I have to add, Maxi and Bellamy looked electric in the first half, they both have terrific movement.


    Subs: Doni, Carragher, Gerrard, Kelly, Henderson, Downing, Carroll

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    • I would play 4-2-3-1 thus:

      ---------------Normal back four------------

      • 1 Reply to Loki
      • I was a bit scared in the second half yesterday and the City midfield is more mobile that the aging chelsik one. And Suarz was isolated for the better part of the game yesterday. I would have the following:

        -----------------same keeper-----------------
        -----------------same back 4-----------------

    • I got to admit I would not have gone with Maxi against Chelsea, and I'm still not sure I'd pick him again against City. So, for that have to give full marks to Kenny for a very brave move that really worked out.

      But my concerns for using him again are first his lack of pace, and that I think he did fade in the second half. While of course he can be replaced I never like the idea of starting someone who you know you have to replace as it reduces your tactical flexibility by using up one precious sub. But I do have to give the player credit as it was his skill, his movement, and most importantly his footballing brain that ensured he made an impact on Sunday, so for that he has to be considered.

      But my thoughts are we have to keep the same attitude and tactics of keeping the pressure on a side with quality, so they get little chance to actually play there own game. But that does not necessarily mean keeping the same personnel. City I think have many of the same ball playing qualities as Chelsea (arguably more quality) but also with more pace. So I'd go with:

      ----------------------------------Reina------------------- -----------
      ---------------------Suarez-------------Bellamy----------- -----

      Subs: Doni, Carragher, Gerrard, Kelly, Maxi, Downing, Carroll

      The only other change is maybe bringing in Gerrard if he's fit for Adam, so we can get better tackling in the middle, and a lot more pace.

      • 1 Reply to dsteer_lfc_68
      • no sign of henderson anywhere steer. i thought you were saying in some other posts, that he made a big impact on the chelsea game. i hear what you are saying about maxi, and think he is unlikely to start this next game. for this one i would actually bring carrol back, and have bellamy or maxi come on if it's not working out for the big man. He played very well against city last season, and for some reason i get the feeling he could give them a bit of a fright again. whenever he gets stuck on the bench for a game or two, he always seems to come back to play one good game, and then drops off again.

        i would go

        same back 5.

        and if Gerrard is fit, bring him on as a sub at some point. unlikely to start after another layoff.

        subs: doni, carra, kelly, gerrard, maxi, bellamy, kuyt

        i notice you have downing playing as well as on the bench, maybe one of him is hendo?

    • The City away game last season was ridiculous, I remember scratching my head when I saw Roy had decided to play Ngog, Torres, Kuyt and Jovanovic against a City side who were playing 5 in midfield at the time, it was just lunacy.
      Big Andy will be in with a shout as he surely would find some confidence in what he did to City last season. My 1st concern though is the size of that City team, they are giants with Lescott, Richards, Kompany, Toure, Dzeko all monsters in the box! I guess that can work in 2 ways, you can go pound for pound with them or you can try to negate it in a different way.
      Maxi definitely faded in the Chelsea game but I would put that down to match fitness and not anything to do with his age etc.

      To be honest, Maxi is still one of my favourite, if not my favourite Liverpool player but since his lack of consistent inclusion, I have been brainwashed into not selecting him in my own teams because you cant feasibly see it happening. Whilst he might not be absolute lightening, hes certainly no slouch, also he is very good on the counter attack just because his movement and retention are so good it buys you an extra % of possesion over the course of a game.

    • I know what you mean about last year. I remember at the time I was desperately trying to give Roy the benefit of the doubt, but the line up, the tactics and the performance was no better than a joke.

      On size I'm not sure the best tactic. I would say throw Carroll in there and go toe to toe, but think the City back line would eat up much of what was coming in at them in the air. But on the other hand I was so impressed with pressing and attitude of Suarez and Bellers in the first half against Chelsea so wonder if two fast "talking" strikers in and around their ankles might be a better move. The alternative is to go with a bit of both "little and large" by pairing Carroll up with Suarez.

      On Maxi I don't disagree with you, and the fading was as much about match fitness as it was about the change of Chelsea tactics. My only real criticism of Maxi is that he can slow things down due to his lack of pace compared with say Downing or Bellamy. But that was not evident against Chelsea I think because of the great movement he had across the front line. He's got great touch, technical skill, and does have a habit of popping up in just the right place at critical moments.

      But I think what Maxi and actually much of the squad has to realize is that its horses for courses. Players should be played based on form, but also based on what they bring that enhance the tactics for that match. Maxi has the ability to start out wide, but he's not an out and out winger, and is not likely to beat someone down the line. For that we have Downing. who is less likely to pop up in the box, but can get down the flank and whip in quality service. Who therefore starts is more about what the overall tactics are and the shape of the entire line up rather than who is the better player at the moment.

    • Im the same as you on the 'negating the big guys' tactics, no idea!

      Im completely stuck on whether to play Carroll or not, the problem being, if you play Carroll then the rest of the team picks itself! If Carroll is playing then it puts a lot of emphasis on him holding up the ball as well as getting good delivery into him, for me, this means playing Henderson and Downing wide as they can both beat a man and ping a ball in. I know we have Enrique playing at full back but realistically against City, they arent likely to get freedom of the park to repeatedly get up and make crosses. I dont think Bellamy should play on the wing in those circumstances because delivery isnt really his thing, he likes to link up and bee line for goal.

      I really think that bellamy will have a huge point to prove against his old club and would leave him in for that reason as well as his skill credentials. There is just no leaving Suarez out so I would pair Bellas up with him and give Maxi another shot especially after scoring on Sunday. In the second half, it would be nice to have Carroll and Downing to call on as a pair.

      I only like to think as far as the next game but a 1/4 final at Stamford Bridge will get everyone some football within a 48hr period!

    • Just having caught up to this, I'd have 2-3 points or views on this.

      I loved what Kenny did over the weekend, and I had been clamoring for him to do something unique or different, and not in my wildest imagination did I expect Maxi which actually made tons of sense, and Bellamy behind Suarez was brilliant.

      Having said that I'd consider only 1-2 changes, with bringing in Downing for Maxi, no disrespect to him, just that additional pace, delivery and long range shooting. Only other one I would consider would be Henderson in for Adam, which again seems harsh, but I'm just thinking for a little more pace. And regards to Carroll, I don't see how to include him based on the overall performance and the great "pass and move" style saw and have been wanting, along with high tempo and pressing. He's available certainly off the bench, but I'd not go the route of him "challenging the bigger Kompany/Lescott" thought.. I think they'll have far more challenges dealing with Suarez/Bellamy and Kuyt running around

      Also, I will be very disappointed to see any changes in our CB pairing who with the exception of Agger just not in good position once, put in a 3rd straight good performance. It hurts to hear, but for this one, no Carra.. leave it alone.

      Whatever formation you like, I usually just choose 4-2-3-1

      Reina, Glen (upgraded from Glenda status), Skrtel, Agger, Enrique. Lucas/Adam. Kuyt, Bellamy, Downing. Suarez.

      Subs:Doni, Carra, Kelly, Spearing, Carroll, Maxi, Hendo

    • Not sure if this helps with the selection but some other thoughts I think should be considered.

      For the most part City play very compact going forward. They can all handle the ball at their feet but don't really play traditional wing play. Milner will go wide but both Nasri and Silva would much rather play the tic tack toe through the middle even if they do start in the flank positions. Johnson is a real winger but he seems to have become an impact sub these days. Besides even he normally sets up on the right so he can cut in on his left foot.

      The other point is they have been getting most of their width down the right from Richards who has essentially been playing wing back, and because City have dominated games has hardly had to defend.

      I'm not sure what the selection should be, but I think there is something there we can take advantage of. For example in defending obviously we have to be compact and disciplined, but that would go without saying. But going forward we should find space on the flanks, so whether that is going with Henderson or Kuyt and Downing, or expecting Johnson and Enrique to get forward, they may find space in which to operate in. That also maybe be a nod in Carroll's favor

      But also I think we have to attack their full backs. Richards has had a couple great outings but that is based on attacking form not defending, so we need to negate him. Best way to negate an attacking full back is to pin them back.

      This might be a complete disaster of an idea, but I like the idea of shaking things up for this one and really putting Mancini on the back foot, as we have to unsettle them and make sure we dictate the match. It’s also a nod to what worked so well last season at Stamford Bridge

      --------------------------- Reina --------------------------------
      ---------- Skrtel -------Carra ----------Agger---------------
      Johnson---------------------------------------------- Enrique
      ----------------------- Lucas -- Adam ------------------------
      ---Kuyt/Bellamy----------------------------------Suarez ---
      -----------------------------Carroll --------------------------------

    • Dave,

      I actually gave that formation some thought and in theory also like it and the look overall, though for the back 3, I'd just have Skrtel in the center, Carra right due to Skrtel's more athletic presence and height.

      Aside from that, if we want to do everything similar going forward that we saw last match, I just can't have (for me) Carroll up top to start so would do the same, and perhaps have downing wide right, bellamy wide left, kuyt behind or in front of Suarez with all 4 swapping roles like we saw..

      This is another story for another thread, but I read that the club are taking a very serious new approach with Carroll in regards to his fitness, pace, diet and strength.. they feel while he's big, he's not particularly strong in the upper body so they feel he's lacking in lean muscle which causes him to labor a bit, ie- be slow. I don't think he lacks the talent or the effort, he just needs work, and simply based on results and performance, they seem to do better without him, as he is now. Regardless what he costs, that's irrelevant anymore, he just needs to work and get himself right so we can get him in the side and allow to adapt to quick pass and move with some aerial power too!

    • Not sure I mind which order the CBs deploy and might have written it in that order as Skrtel usually plays right, while Agger goes left. I understand why you'd want the more athletic player take the central role, although someone with more pace might be good in the side slots if as expected the wing backs push up front.

      Like with the discussion with Hobbs I'm torn on whether to use Carroll or not. On the one hand going with the front 3 you propose does provide much more flexibility for movement between the positions. However if the strategy is to take advantage of the space City leave on the flanks and to pin back the full backs, it would really help if we had a target man to aim for if we can dominate down the sidelines.

      The other coin flip issue on Carroll is how we tend to play. On the one hand I felt he provided much relief when he came on for Suarez late against Chelsea by providing a target man, and he did a good job of holding the ball up. It’s not his natural role, but he seems to be getting better at it, and think it’s something he's going to be asked to do more often.

      Against City I think we have to be realistic that we may find large portions of the game where they put us under real pressure and we may find it hard to play out of the back. Having a big man up front can really help relieve some of that pressure.

      But on the other hand, it has to be a balance. I don't mind a few balls being pumped up to relieve some of the pressure and give the defenders a chance to take a breath, but if it turns into the hoof and hope that can happen when Carroll starts we're not going to have much luck. He can be the target, can hold up the ball, but is at his best when he gets good service either from the flanks or the diagonals that Adam specializes at. He can then latch onto those himself or help bring in Suarez or others to take the chances.

      Good luck Kenny, this one is going to be a hard decision.

    • I agree that tactically this prob the best way to go against City. But I'm not sure that it is allowed for Liverpool FC to start with 5 at the back at Anfield. Sends out all the wrong messages.

      Re Carroll I think he's prob better use as a sub for this game, but my heart says give him a chance to prove himself.




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