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  • A Yahoo! User Dec 28, 2011 07:41 Flag

    is carrol a bad signing

    carrol i think we have not treated fairly cos we signed thjis young man with injury and i expected KK to give him more playing time either in the first team or otherwise to build his confidence back.letz not forget how drogba started in chelsea and even d great henry in arsenal,bekieve me people more playing time irrespective of performance for now we will start appreciating the potentials KK signed in andy carrol cos i strongly think his potentials in underused for now and we cant get the best out of him as we are using him now,crouch is a perfect example

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    • It's way too early to draw firm conclusions about Andy Carroll.

      The guy is only 21 and has not yet completed a full season at Anfield.

      I really think that KD needs people to be patient and to give him time to rebuild, in a similar way that SAF needed at Utd.

      The parallels are striking to me, in the 1970s/80s, LFC dominated and Utd played attractive, but inconsistent football, with flashes of brilliance and medocrity intertwined. Utd would occasionally win a cup competition and flatter to decieve, finishing 2nd one year, then 15th (or somewhere around there) the next.

      I see the core of a good team emerging at Anfield, but there is still work to do to gain the consistency that the league winning teams need. Also, there is a matter of building the confidence that comes from a winning track record, that is the belief that drives teams on for the full 90 minutes. How often do the great teams score 'lucky' goals in the 90th minute? LFC did in the 70s/80s, Arsenal did, Chelsea did and so did Utd.

      It's easy for me to say as a non-supporter, but in a way, LFC should forget chasing a place and focus on building a coherent and confident team, even if if means dropping points in the short term to bring in new (or younger) players and moulding a real winning side. (I also believe that Utd should do the same, BTW.)

      It's going to be challenging to compete with the oil money, but I am sure it can be done.

      Interesting that someone mentioned Gerrard earlier in the thread, once again parallels with Bryan Robson at Utd, the pillar of strength (and the best player) throughout and only won a league title in the twilight of his career.

    • It's a very good point. It was very telling when the service into Carroll improved once Gerrard came on. Unlucky not to score twice. His touch let him down on one the cross bar on a second.

    • I'm suggesting a little patience.

    • So you're suggesting Steer... that we should wait 6 & 1/2 yrs to win anything from whena manager takes over?

    • Interesting little article for you Colin if you've not already seen it.

      I don't think anyone is above criticism including Kenny, although its way to early in the project to pass judgment imo. But bottom line is you either believe in the philosophy he brings and his and his staff's ability to get the right players in to implement that philosophy or you don't. It seems pretty clear where we both stand on that front.

      https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/29122011/63/dalglish-won-t-change-philosophy.html

      Just one other point, Rome was not built in a day, Nor was the house Shanks built, the success Fergie has unfortunately grown over many years, or even the years of spending its taken to turn Eastlands into a success.

    • dsteer...excellent post agree with every word ! I never criticised Lucas and always considered him to bea class actdepite all the unfair barracking came his way . By the same token I feel Carrol will become a world class classic centre forward in the Alan Shearer mouldand as u quite rightly point out it was Kenny spotted his real potential and brought it out of him hence BLACKBURN ROVERS actually winning The Prem. I certainly would never consider myself a better judge of talent than KK.I think one of the problems we are up against is that we have many amongst our support unaware of the real ability and talent of Kenny first as a player for The Bhoys in Hoops up there in Glasgow toon and later plying his trade as aplayer for us not to mention as player manager the season in which his first as manager we won THE DOUBLE.mANY OF THESE CLUELESS FANS EXPECT HIM TO PRODUCE MIRACLES IN HIS FIRST FULL SEASON....we are on our way up and for right now that should be good enough for the support ...who shouldbe like uself give new signings a bit of breathing space to develop and then watch them deliver the goods for us.

    • Robert, maybe you miss read or miss understood what I was saying. I never suggested it took Dalglish to make Shearer a great player. His ability was there to see well before he moved to Blackburn. But what I suggested is that it took Dalglish (or maybe it was just coincidental as the player matured at that point and or on his own altered his playing style) to turn him into a prolific and consistent goal scorer.

      Also from Wikipedia as I know you value it as a solid source of information:

      “Despite this auspicious start to his career, Shearer was only eased into the first team gradually and made just ten goalless appearances for the club the following season. Throughout his career Shearer was recognised for his strength,[5] which, during his time at Southampton, enabled him to retain the ball and provide opportunities for team mates.[4] Playing as a lone striker between wide men, Rod Wallace and Matt Le Tissier, Shearer scored three goals in 26 appearances in the 1989–90 season,[6] and in the next, four goals in 36 games. His performances in the centre of the Saints attack were soon recognised by the fans, who voted him their Player of the Year for 1991.[3][6] His partnership with fellow striker Matt Le Tissier would eventually pave the way to international success”

      Surprised you missed that as its the paragraph before your own pasted quote.

    • Well let me see. How long?

      Kenny came in 8 January, so he's been with us less than a year. Mr. Henry and FSG a little longer with them coming on board in mid October of last year. So is just under a year for the manager and a little over a year for the owners long enough to take us from relegation spot to title challengers (or even top 4)?

      Let’s do a little comparison to see what is realistic to build a club back up:

      Shanks was appointed in Dec 1959, and won the title in 1966. So 6 and half years. But he did have to take the team further as we were in the 2nd division when he took over and of course football has changed a bit since the 60s. But maybe 4 years is a better comparison as it was 1962 that he got us back into the top flight.

      Let's try Fergie. Appointed at OT in Nov 1986, first title 1993. So that is 6 and half years. Still a long time so maybe you can use the excuse that football has moved on from the early 1990s but he did not have to bring the half as far as Shanks did.

      So let’s try a little more recent experience, and one fueled by money which seems to be a route you've advocated on here. Man City, bought by Thaksin in May of 2007 which saw the club start healthy investment, and then bought by Abu Dhabi United Group in September 2008 which saw unprecedented spending. No league title yet, although looks like they will be strong contenders this term, so we can say what, top 4 finish after 4 years of healthy investment, with 3 of those years being unprecedented spending, and maybe a league title this year, after record spending in the last 3 seasons.

      Now, what was the question again, why is it taking us so long?

    • He certainly looks like a bad signing.

      But did you lot know that Torres has scored more league goals for Liverpool than for Chelsea in 2011? Anything you can do we can do better.


      Robert

      • 1 Reply to Robert M
      • It’s an interesting way to look at it. You could say the worst case scenario we got rid of what used to look like a world class striker and brought in someone marginally better (Torres 3 goals n 27 matches for Chelsea, Carroll 4 goals in 23 matches for Liverpool), and got 15M in return.

        Now as I'm an optimist at heart, and hate looking at worst case scenario’s alone, we could also have brought in a 21 year old with years of prime football in front of him, while letting a another club shoulder the high salary burden of a 27 year old player who might have already played the best football of his career.

        I'm sure you'll want to be an optimist also, and hope that 27 is way to early to call a career over, and who knows he may get his mojo back, and you can always say your 3 points better off n the league, even if you are 15M lighter in the pocket.

    • Oh Dave you were doing so well. Then you suggested Shearer needed Dalglish to become a good player. This was rather over-egging it.

      Wikipedia has:
      [
      In the summer of 1991, Shearer was a member of the England national under-21 football squad in an international tournament in Toulon, France. Shearer was the star of the tournament where he scored seven goals in four games.[6] It was during the 1991–92 season that Shearer rose to national prominence. 13 goals in 41 appearances for the Saints led to an England call-up;[8] he scored on his debut,[9] and was strongly linked in the press with a summer move to Manchester United. A possible move for Shearer was being mentioned in the media during late autumn of 1991, but he rejected talk of a transfer and vowed to see out the season with Southampton.[3]

      During the summer of 1992 Southampton's manager, Ian Branfoot, became "the most popular manager in English football", as he took telephone calls from clubs "trying to bargain with players they don't want plus cash". Although Branfoot accepted that a sale was inevitable, he claimed that "whatever happens, we are in the driving seat".[10] Eventually, Shearer was sold to Blackburn Rovers for a fee of £3.6 million, with David Speedie reluctantly moving to The Dell as part of the deal. Despite Branfoot's claim to be "in the driving seat", Saints failed to include a "sell-on clause" in the contract.[11] In his four years in the Southampton first team, Shearer made a total of 158 appearances in all competitions, scoring 43 goals.
      ]

      Dalglish didn't pluck him from obscurity, he used Blackburn's money to win the signing competition.


      Robert

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