Liverpool Message Board
This is Anfield is reporting that John Henry has reported that Borini is in. Further reports are that Dempsy should be tied up pretty soon, with Carrol and Belamy leaving......... What's your take?
Well if they figure in the plans of Rodgers' then fair enough Carroll *& Bellamy should go.
Bellamy is 32..
Dempsey is 30.. so not far off .. but he's scored more goals than Bellamy & Carroll.. also as I remarked before, Clint is wanted probably more cos he's american..
As for the other player Borini.. I don't know enough about him to comment..
I just hope they make us better than previous seasons..
Borini seems to make sense. I don't know too much about him but he fits the club profile: young, not overpriced (transfer or wages), with a large potential upside over time (ability to improve and or increase in value). Also what video I've seen of him would suggest he might be a natural replacement for Kuyt with a similar ability to be in the right place at the right time to poach key goals.
But I'm not sure about the Dempsey move. Not doubting your info, but just wondering if it’s more rumor than fact as it just does not seem to fit. At 29 he's older than the FSG ideal. He's coming off one of his best seasons for club and country so would likely command a higher salary than he does now. I'm not saying he can't improve, but realistically he's got more downside than upside in terms of both improvement as a player and resale value.
I like him, and 2 years ago was saying we should be looking at him, but I think we may have missed the window, or at least the window FSG uses for the ideal transfer. He's just not very "moneyball" like.
- 1 Reply to dsteer_lfc_68
Don't get too caught up in the "moneyball" term.. ever since it was introduced into football, or for our say the LFC set up, it's grown legs and developed into many things as people like.. FSG didn't even come up with the concept, it was another club almost 15 years ago. And to simplify it, it was a team that never had money to compete, and put every penny and effort into developing youth, using them exclusively and using other random buys based on %'s
Borini has actually not officially become a player, though it seems more or a less formality of agreeing on some financials. And regarding Borini, aside from have very good strength, and being 5'11, he's nothing like Kuyt. Only resmblence there is he can adapt to a wide striker in a 4-3-3, or play through the middle. He's got enough pace to do that, probably faster than Suarez in a race, and is quite clinical in front. I view poacher is a Johnny on the spot thing, so it might be unfair to him. Also 9 goals in a team that had Totti, Osvaldo, Lamela and Bojan at striker is actually impressive..
Regards to Clint, I'm def with you Dave, matter of fact think 2 years ago we'd discussed him, and at that time he wasn't "good enough" and also plagued by that severe disease known as Americanism. however, it seems he's getting close though there's nothing concrete here in the states. But the suggested fee would be around 7M, and he would be your Kuyt replacement as well as another striker. He's 29 and actually hitting his peak with alot in his tank for club and country, so 2-3 years out of him would be very fair. Plus, we know it's a given on the jersey sales, but endorsements and advertisements would come to club, and all things considered, you could say he'd be great value at 5M..
I don't think Dempsey's purchase matters much with the overall policy, afterall we went much older with Bellamy, and also, I don't think he would prohibit further purchases. We can't land all 21-22 year olds and be successful.. Meireles is a perfect example for both us and his contributions to Chelsea..
In total, I expect 4 in, one particular not mentioned here, and perhaps up to 5 if we're lucky. Probably 4 out as well.. at least some of the things I'm reading..
I think Madrid claimed a while ago that Ronaldo had already paid for himself in increased shirt sales. Whether that is true or not only the accountants know, as it sounded like bluster at the time. However with the way Spanish clubs normally hold a large percentage of a player’s image and other marketing rights, I'm sure if he's not paid for, he soon will be.
Whether Dempsey on a much smaller scale could do the same I don't know, but Jason is right he's viewed very highly amongst those who follow football (soccer) on this side of the Atlantic, and while that is not a huge fan base, getting some of those kids that want a US National team shirt with Dempsey name on it also interested in LFC is never going to be a bad thing.
But it opens up a potentially conflicting question. In today's world we as fans crave players that make footballing sense (our individual opinions of what makes good footballing sense) while most clubs also need to be fully aware of what makes financial sense. Both boxes have to be ticked, which in the case of Dempsey I think they are. Imo he's good enough for the side, and so long as he's not looking for huge wages the sums might add up also. But I think we have to understand, and Rodgers seems fully aware of this with his rejecting Sigi after he demanded more when it was LFC rather than Swansea (did he get better because a richer club was interested in him?) which I think was a good thing, that we don't pay over the odds, but pay what a player is worth. But by the same token we don't bring someone in just because he might sell shirts in America or Asia; he's still got to be Liverpool quality.
Re: Dempsey, first, since it's my 3rd time now commenting though I didn't bring him up, I'm doing my best not to be bias due to the obvious. Having said that, I don't like the guy personally, his demeanor/persona, but he's a hell of a "good" footballer.
Again, I have no idea his wage demands, if I had to guess, coming from Fulham and looking to either us or Arsenal, my guess would be around 60ish which isn't outrageous, but that aside, the fee I've seen tossed about is 7m which seems fair. I wouldn't go higher than 8M max..
If you take a look at his stats with Fulham over the last 3 years, I did this last night, they have steadily, but noticeably gone up and from my viewing of him with club and for USA, I think he's peak-"ing".. so not done yet. I wouldn't expect 23 goals in all comp type season, but then again aside from Suarez, that shouldn't even be expected from anyone in our squad esp with the new season, so what I've tried to do is make a realistic expectation for him should he come..
7M, 3 very "good years", 35 goals, 15 assists... So maybe we get 15-5 this season then level or plateua 10-5 10-5.. Not too bad?
In comparison to Adam, he had that one season, and huge chunk of his goals were fks, set pieces and pks.. Dempsey score 19 in the league from every variety you like, headers, volleys, fks, open play.. And last thing is, he could be a big upgrade to both Maxi and Kuyt, from what they were giving, or would be, wrapped into 1 player who can play up to 5 positions, with an axe to grind mentality..
For what it's worth, I also believe Bellamy is leaving too. They had a little run in at the Cottage if anyone remembers, not that would detract this, but we lack a little of that esp up front, where we know at the back 37 and 5 aren't bashful ..
Jason, just a side note I'd be interested in your view point on. It seems to me most American footballer’s peak much later than their European counterparts. I think this might have to do with the fact they don't get as much competitive football when they are teenagers, and most don't really make it to a professional level until their early 20s, with your university system versus academies at professional clubs. So Dempsey peaking at 29 rather than the 26 or 27 I'd expect from most players might be logical. I'm not sure if this also means Americans are more likely able to extend their careers longer past 30, but less miles on the clock might suggest that.
Also, I don't know if Bellars is thinking of leaving or not, but if he does I doubt it would have anything to do with the activities with Dempsey at CC. I'm not sure there is a player in the league Bellars has not had a run in with (including his own team mates) but he's seems to be the kind who will leave everything on the pitch, and once the whistle is blown it’s all over. The fake swing of the 9 iron after scoring against a certain Spanish club, followed by a hug of a ginger Norwegian is still one of my best memories of Mr. Bellamy.
Yes, I'm glad you brought that up, it was sort of what I was hinting at when I said it was worthwhile taking a look at his stats which I haven't done just lately, nor know exactly but when I had looked showed steady, and fairly significant increases, last year being penultimate, after what we both agree was already a good season before..
To answer your question which I sort of overlooked myself, yes you're spot on the money. Our College Soccer is extremely high calibre.. in it's own context or comparison to that of MLS vs MLS.. but the MLS hasn't really started to really get big until the past 5-6-7 years with Int'ls coming over, and there were a mixture of second tier type leagues, ones that wouldn't compete with the likes of Wrexham, Brighton etc.. So really, alot of these players were stuck in limbo, or played in poor standard leagues, got called up to bigger MLS clubs or even our National side, and then didn't do anything and were deemed flops.. Look at the sad story of Freddy Adu, signed for MILLIONS as a 14 year old and he can't even get into a good MLS side now at 22ish..
So anyways, if you look at Dempsey, Donovan who does great for Galaxy, USA and in his stints with the bitters, Stuart Holden when healthy for Bolton, and even now Bradley in Serie A who's headed from a relegation side to As Roma... You can see we do have talent, and Bradley aside, these guys are in their later 20's but they still have tread on their tires, Dempsey more so than Donovan. And Dempsey is built on energy, hard work, fairly technical and a good combo of pace/power. Again, barring injury, I say he gets at least 3 very good years left.. He also has a very difficult life story, and is someone who would go to extreme lengths to prove doubters wrong, he would not allow himself to hit the post 10 times.. his mental strength may be his biggest asset.
I'll give you another example, Jozy Altidore came over a few years back to Hull City, and did f all... then he went to Vilarreal, both times as a 17/18 yo, but is USA's first choice striker.. now 4 years later, he just had a 20+ goal season in Bundesliga.. So I think we'll see more Yanks coming abroad, there's one defender headed to Stoke Shitty as we speak, Cameron I believe..
So, long winded answer, but yes, great thinking, good analysis, and honestly all bias aside because I don't like him (now), he's peaking and has alot to give, hopefully us, not an Arsenal, or perhaps Spurs. And regards to Bellamy, I'm not saying him going would have anything to do with it, I'm sure it would be squashed, but I do think he is leaving and Dempsey fills that tough guy role well too
Just seeing this now, suppose it's just pending physical then should be announced for reals finally.. Borini 11M (or 13M)
Not 100% sure my news here is right, yet, but starting to see some more reliable things this side of the pond that suggest Dempsey for 7.5M..
Be a nice day tomorrow/Friday to hear the news of these two, get them in for training, and off on the N. American tour, while the club explore more moves, both in and out... I expect as many as 4-5 in, possibly that same way out too..
- View More Messages