• Liverpool Message Board

  • Paddy Paddy Sep 4, 2012 14:34 Flag

    A pessimist is what an optimist calls a realist ...

    [sorry in advance about the length of the post - Gary S ... don't bother]

    Or, in other words, it's mostly about perception. Here's mine for what it's worth and if you can be bothered to read it.

    John Henry has written an open letter to the fans - which I think he should be commended for. Picking the bones out of the words, the methodology is:

    1) Run the finances prudently
    2) Buy in/discover young talent and develop it
    3) Wait for FFP to kick in
    4) Restoring the club to its proper status

    1) makes sense but begs the question - at what level? Far from the minimum objective of achieving CL football that we saw last season, the wage bill looks to have been trimmed for life outside of Europe.

    The idea that you can develop young players and keep them together to form title winning sides is hugely doubtful (ask Arsenal fans). Why would a player with talent choose to join/stay with Liverpool over Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham or the Manchester clubs? Indeed, given we have been telling the world that "all our players have a price" - why choose Liverpool over Newcastle, Villa or Stoke?

    Signing Joe Allen at £15m represented taking a gamble on a talented young player. He's looked our best player and therefore would fit right into the FSG methodology of buying young talent and developing it. But what happens next season when Sir Alex looks to replace Scholes? What does Joe care about Liverpool - a team that won its last Championship just a few months after he was born? The club have already made it clear that if the right bid comes in he will be off.

    Players look for wages and a belief in what clubs are trying to do. Perception has a lot to do with it. Under Kenny we over-spent on players with AC being the stick used most often to beat him with. Clearly it was a mistake but I think Kenny understood that to be a big football club - for players and fans to believe in you - you need to act like a big football club. Torres leaving for a "bigger club who could win things" was a signal to the world that Liverpool were finished in terms of ambition - immediately spending a record fee on the hottest young English talent at the time was a response to that. It backfired massively, but I understand the thinking. Compare that with what we have heard and seen since - Torres was spot on.

    So, it is to FFP that we need to look in order to find a rosy future. A hope that, once Chelsea and Man City owners are cut down to size, Liverpool's commercial pull will see us able to compete financially at the top of the tree. But I have massive concerns with having our eggs in this particular basket. Clubs seem to be either ignoring FFP completely or paying it lip service - my view is that UEFA will feel that as long as it is acting as a brake on some of the worse excesses then FFP will have done its job. Even if FFP is enforced we will still be behind a number of clubs. with extra bums on seats

    My view is that we are in for mid-table mediocrity and the odd cup run for the foreseeable. Whatever you thought of Rafa, that was something that you couldn't see happening just 5 years ago when we were regularly beating the best teams in Europe and signing world class talent. It won't stop most of us supporting the club but it'll just take some adjusting to. For those on here who thought that squeeking a Carling cup victory against Cardiff was beneath us, I suspect you might be looking back on that wistfully in a few years time.

    So I don't think that FSG will achieve their objective.

    Am I being realistic or pessimistic?

    What do you think?

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    • psredpool: You're spot on..

      I think as things are we'll scrape into the odd EL run.

      People may condemn Rafa but he got us into the C.L with little resources to play with.. Still got us good players..

    • This is the reality as I see it.

      Although Henry/FSG may have the heart and good intentions toward LFC.

      They don't have the finances to compete with Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea..

      Those 3 clubs will always outspend us and bring in the best players..

      We should only think about FFP when it's due to take effect.

      It worries me although our aims are high they'll never be fulfilled not whilst the 3 clubs I mentioned will bring in those better players.

      Seems to me Henry is counting on luck. In terms of having the luck in hoping we'll unearth several young players who become stars.

      Rather than also thinking of the here and now. As it's the present season and the imminent seasons that could edge us towards a possible title.

      People were right when we'll be like another Arsenal. As in terms of getting young players in. Thing is though what titles and for that matter what has Arsenal won in that last few seasons? Not much have they?

    • Agree with you psredpool. King Kenny had the cojones for a big club. If anything he understood the big picture, while Brendan seems to be the opposite. But as long as results delivered, both approach would be fine.

    • I dont know the answer to that. One thing I do know is that a bit of time seems to reveal more truths. I was absolutely fuming that we didnt make signings on deadline day when really, we should have been fuming that they werent done earlier. The Dempsey deal, the more I think about it, is one that I am now glad didnt happen. He had a great season last year and would have been good for a while, but where would he have played? Left forward is the most likely assumption. That would mean Sterling playing less, that is the truth. Also, he will turn 30 this season, with no resale value forseeably.

      I would like to think that attacking options and potentially left back cover are our only squad weaknesses right now? Most people would say Suarez and Sterling are good enough, the rest are not so much. For me, that means we need a long term right forward (Sturridge perhaps) and a 1 or 2 more versatile options, who knows, Assaidi could be that guy. As much pain as might be involved in the run up to January, I would rather have the £6m Dempsey fee, plus his wages ready to put into a real attacking talent with pace in the locker. Obviously, I would rather have one already but a panic buy will never be the answer again.

      • 2 Replies to Hobitez
      • Hobs I think you're bang on.

        I think whilst FSG are in charge, and have seen the wastage in spending £35m on a very average striker.

        That under their watch it'll never happen again.

        I think therefore some creative juggling of players positions needs tooking at.

        As we don't have any strikers as such perhaps we need to mould one of our many midfielders into a striker..Or a combo of both AM/ Striker.

        Maybe Sterling?

      • Hi Hobs

        I happen to agree with you about Dempsey & Sturridge but I don't think that's the point. It doesn't matter what you and I think, only that the club think and act as one. There needs to be a clarity of purpose. A couple of examples,

        John Henry says we are going to develop youth. Someone at the club (presumably the manager) wants to swap a 22 year old England International that we paid £18m for in part-exchange for a 29 year old striker. Then, someone else at the club decide its a no-go much to the surprise of the manager.

        I heard Tony Evans, a well connected scouser whos the football editor for the times, say on radio that the deal to bring Sturridge in was done but BR pulled the plug on it. So, who is doing the deal to sign him if the manager doesn't want him.

        As fans we'll always have our own opinions on managers/players etc. The most important thing though is that the club are all pulling in the same direction from top to bottom. That's not happening at Liverpool.

    • sredpool...spot-on mate sorry to have to say it though. This FFP
      bs ...as u say the authorities may be able to curb the worst excesses but that will be about the best they can manage ...I think both u and I KNOW that unlike more naieve posters on this board who think that it will be like a cast iron straight jacket on clubs...clearly even though they like to discuuss accountancy on this board they are behind the door when it comes down to the labyrinthine intricacies of CREATIVE ACCOUNTING .Do they fpor an instant imagine that Citeh with their multi billions havent employed a battery ofthe finest accountantsout there to help them over the minor hurdle of FFP ...plus if its Platini in charge of enforcement I think Platini will be as alaways loking out for Platinis better interests lol.
      I will continue to support my club through the mid table mediocrity we are heading for withthese Yank clowns in charge just hope I dont end up supporting them in Championship Div for a few yrs as I did whenh I first supported our club YNWA