Liverpool Message Board
Firstly, a great result against Norwich building on impressive displays against WBA & Utd.
That said, I've become increasingly annoyed this week by listening to various media sources fawning over BR. It's great that there is lots of positivity around the club but I think a bit of realism is required.
We have made our worst start to a season in over 100 years. We have played 3 of our rivals (assuming that is where we are still aiming) for the top four spots AT HOME and have dropped 8 points.
Kenny was sacked last year for finishing 8th. It was made clear that it wouldn't have made a difference if he'd won the 2 other competitions we went in for - 8th wasn't good enough. Therefore, you'd assume that the absolute minimum requirement this year for BR to keep his job would be for Liverpool to finish 7th.
As things stand, that means Liverpool have to better one of City, United, Arsenal, Tottenham, Newcastle, Chelsea or Everton (as well as beating off challenges from the likes of WBA, Fulham, West Ham, Stoke etc. Is anyone confident of that at this stage?
The only point I'm making is that we temper our enthusiasm of all things BR with the facts. That way, when the media decide it's time to give him a kicking (which they will), we might not get sucked into doing the same.
I've said before that I think he needs a minimum of two years before he is judged. By judged I mean both ways - either as a Souness or a Shankly.
dsteer....until Suarez and Stevie were brought on last night we had plenty of possession lot of nice build up movement out of defense through midfield when we finally lost the ball we were quick to press high up the pitch to retrieve it with a lot of success but whe it came to that telling last ball ...NOTHING and consequentially ...
NOTHING in front of goal ...Borini was played in his favoured central role in front of goal up front and produced absolutely nothing its no use stating SOME of his movement was good SOME of every one of our players movement was good last night but thats NOT why he was playing where he was...he never came near scoring and frankly looked like if hed played for a week he wouldnt have scored ???
You speak of creating space for wide players who in turn will create chances for strikers but where are those strikers and as u say it will be Jan before we have a chance to bring in a proven goalscorer a true striker by then our season could be sunk ...think how many League games u are talking about before the window opens ?
What I think the solution may be is to radically rejig position wise the players we are using right now in an attempt to spark a goal avalanche...Johnson looks more and more like an attacking player and is noit tracking back too well when he does attack so why not push him fw and also put some height and muscle into mthe attack by playing Coates up front centre instead of Borini get Henderson benched and replace him with Downing as an attacking wing back gives him more chance to come through the channel rather than always from wide he has a wicked shot too.Also think Stevie should be played in a similar role tothat which SAF currently plays Rooney off of Suarez but somewhar deeper to let him snap up anything comes loose and also when playing that little bit deeper have the space to make those runs into the box...I believe there are plenty of goals in Stevie if hes played this way.
Good first half last night but Udinese are a strong side and we defo lost concentration for about 15 mins early 2nd half and
frankly it looked like it could have at that time developed into a complete rout ...scary and defo something BR needs to address with the lads...stamina must be aligned to total concentration for 90 mins plus injury time !
psredpool....Well bit disappointing tonight to say the least. Think we looked very shaky at the back. Reina's positioning looked very suspect to me he seemed too far off his line where two of the goals were concerned and seemed once again to be hesitating to cut out crosses both high and low that were near enough to him for him to be winning them...really I think its time for Jones to get his chance.
Up front absolutely NO cutting edge till Louis came on then things changed. Borini played in his 'natural' position and couldnt get anything at all right ! Yes I know some have been saying well he needs time etc.but personally dont like what I m seeing with this player ...sonethings not right with him. He frankly looked pretty feeble out there and certainly cant see him being selected much longer by Italy as a full International on this kind of form...so for me I wouldngt give this boy any more time but will simply take it match by match and if I think hes played badly will say so likewise if he turns in a fine performance I will say so ..cant be fairer than that.
Lots of lovely build up approach play but came unstuck early in 2nd half getting caught out in possessiojn whilst attempting to play tici tac very basic mistake by Johnson but shows the perils u can encounter when playing this brand of football.
Udinese are a strong side nobodys mugs and think perhaps BR should have gone with Suarez and Stevie and Rahim to start or at least brough them on sooner.We cant expect to overcome tactically efficient sides like this with no cutting edge up front .I know Im going to be accused of ranting but Oh for Andy C in the middle tonight.
- 1 Reply to colin
I have to say I do like the way this thread is going where everyone is sort of coming together to back BR and the situation/team as it is, viewing in a majority of a positive light and focusing only on the few negatives..
BR did not have that transfer chest, so he never had the chance to really do some damage, but since everyone (including myself now) are worried over Borini, I think it important to point out that him aside, the buys have been magnificent, or looking like they will be. Allen, Assaidi, Yesil and Sahin on loan with hopes of buying. Obviously Yesil is still a bit of enigma with one game, albeit quite impressive, under his belt. But, those other guys, spot on, and let's say he had gotten better luck in getting a Tello, or us at least ending up with Dempsey.. We'd be well higher up based on maybe 2-3 goals from either of those two or someone else he may have wanted..
All this said, the thing that bothers me and presumably most of us, especially concerning considering the names, even though today was not the strongest, is the back 4 just seem so mistake prone. The good thing is, there are very good players back there, and mistakes can be fixed, whereas bad players cannot.
To flip the coin on what I just said about our back line needing a real wake up call and shaping up, I can honestly say that our build up play, passing, movement and chances created in the final third just seem to keep getting better and better, and I genuinely feel that we can at any moment string together a series of passes and create a serious problem for anyone and get a goal. Last year to be bluntly honest, I really tried to hope for that only to be disappointed with 1-1 draws or being shut out..
Perhaps he could have started Suarez from the get go, but I think it was the right choice to start Borini and in the center which he did to try and get his confidence and boots on.. it didn't work, but the moment we got Suarez, Stevie and Sterling on, with a surprisingly out of his mind Downing, we looked a threat every single time we went forward and to me that is a complete breath of fresh air.. no obviously that relentless ball movement and drive forward is going to put tremendous pressure on the back line, and let's face it, Carra looked out of his depth every minute tonight, and that was perhaps the worst Coates has ever looked, basically, not a good duo to start anymore, so the question could be could the iron man Skrtel have started, and maybe we got all 3?
Who knows.. but I do know for fact, we are a true threat going forward, constantly getting better, it is genuinely exciting football from a team and individual standpoint, and I can't remember us scoring 7 goals in 2 matches at any point last year, particularly because we never scored 5 at all, and if memory is right, only 4 goals once.. We've scored 5 two times this year..
I'd expect that Skrtel/Agger/Glen and Wisdom really gel, and having not mentioned it, it's actually pepe that just continually worries me now, though tonight he made a couple of good ones..
For me, there as so much more good to look at than bad, and progress in the play is extremely visible, despite the position in the table.. So to steal a term Kenny used alot last year that never happened, "If we continue to play like that we'll win alot more than we'll lose", and this year that's the truth..
I think what you’re pointing out, that we all know, but often forget as the emotion, the high or the low of the moment overcomes us, is the fact the media has little to no attention span.
The press reacts to the moment, so 2 weeks ago we were having the worst start in more than 100 years and BR would be lucky to see Christmas on Merseyside. Fast forward one week and after putting 5 past Norwich and BR is a visionary coach bringing through youngsters who can play with style and get results.
Of course neither is true, and maybe I over exaggerated, but you get my point. BR needs to be judged over a series of matches (both performance and result), if not an entire season, rather than just the last result. He needs to be judged by distance he takes the club from where we were, not from how far away we are from where we ultimately want to be. Basically it’s fine to judge him, but let’s do it with a little perspective.
Understand your points but slightly different kettles of fish. Kenny spent the biggest war chest ever made available to an LFC manager and made us worse somehow, he won a cup and got us to a final and I do think he got fired too early but I would, I am a nostalgic kinda guy. Now, in hindsight, the decision appears right. You have to take massive consideration to the fact that Brendan has lost some big, big players and not been provided with the opportunity to replace them. Also, he is blooding in kids that could provide a platform for our future and from what we have seen, our current too.
To expect him to do better under these circumstances is unfair and perhaps unrealistic. For me, the pressure was took off Brendan the moment he couldn't sign the forwards he wanted on deadline day. The problem with Kenny was that he gave us a massive boost initiatily then started last season really well with us all hoping the players would gel and improve over the season but what happened was that they got worse and we seemed to go backwards, that is the reason he got fired.
If this year, Brendan can develop a playing style and show progression that we are becoming a better team then he would have had a successful season. We did only get 1 more point out of those 3 fixtures last season you know!
- 1 Reply to Hobitez
I think that's all pretty fair and in particular agree with the war chest that Kenny had to spend compared with what BR has been given.
That said, I'd like to address a couple of the points you made in BR's corner.
BR didn't lose some big, big players - he chose to move them on (maybe with the exception of one/two of the oldies, e.g. Bellers).
He couldn't sign the forwards he wanted. True. But he did spend a sizeable chunk on one forward and he did handle the AC episode in a way that made his leaving inevitable - so I think he is a least partly culpable for a weakness up top.
Leaving that aside, I didn't start the thread to have a pop at the guy. I just wanted to keep people's feet on the ground so that there isn't a backlash when the media turn - rather like what Miguel said.